What is the best way to handle this with dignity and class?


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  • #590099 Reply

    Jamie

    Sophie I was where you are now. I was *done* with dating. I just stopped trying and decided to live my life and let what happens happen. Like you, I didn’t get why the stars never seemed to align for me…I’m a nice person, I’m a good girlfriend, I felt I deserved someone decent to love who loved me back. I cried tons of tears and then realized that if no one loved me then it was up to me to love myself and that was going to have to be good enough.

    And then I met my boyfriend and he’s been everything I ever wanted so far. It’s been a month, so it’s too soon for me to the wise experienced woman giving advice, but I just wanted to let you know that I felt the same way and I know what you’re going through.

    Several months ago I had a guy who was only five feet tall and had almost zero romantic experience (and he was in his mid forties) dump me for someone else. And even though it goes against every fiber of my being part of what made it smart to so much was “if this unattractive man doesn’t want me, who will?”

    Even though rationally I know that what attracts two people doesn’t always make sense, and I Knew it wasn’t the nicest thought to have, but it was part of the lash of rejection.

    Even though it’s still early days the man I am with now treats me with more dignity and respect than any man I have ever dated before and I think that is worth holding out for and not settling for anything less. Any guy that doesn’t want to give that to you is a waste of your time. If you’re willing to give one hundred percent than he should be too, or don’t even bother.

    #590103 Reply

    Sophie

    Thank you everybody. Amanda, that is the perfect text. Thank you.

    Jamie I really appreciate that. I think I just feel so completely emotional and am tired of caring about other people’s feelings and not having it returned and people making me feel so completely sick of other people that I lose that bright / sunny / optimistic nature that defines me.

    I have had some great boyfriends, but since I started online dating. Geez, one man-baby after the other.

    My friend who passed away was my friend since we were children, always like sisters. I feel angry about a lot today and maybe I let this total weirdo loser take up way more head space than he deserved.

    #590106 Reply

    Nat

    You are very welcome Sophie, take time to grieve your friend and don’t give that guy another thought.

    hahaha. it seems this is our collective lesson ladies here: go for the hottest smartest most successful guy who maybe way out of your league. Because 1) chances he will mistreat you are much lower, because unlikely he is stuffed with insecurities and low self esteem, 2) if he dumps you, you won’t be terribly upset because you won’t be necessarily counting on him to stick around, and 3) there is a chance things just might work out. Natural selection of the modern age. lol

    But regardless of how hot your guy prospect is: 1) do not sleep with him until you get to know him, definitely not within the first 5-6 dates, 2) do not believe all he says, use common sense judgement and evaluate HIM, 3) if you see ONE red flag, act on it immediately, do not allow any disrespect, entrapment, usury or arrogance in a demeaning way towards yourself. No need to be classy, just exit as quickly as you can and don’t entertain any more contact with the “offender”. and above all 4) it is better to be single than deal with jerky men.

    #590117 Reply

    Marie

    I think Jen is crazy and rude and also lacks humility and self respect.

    I think Sophie is channeling her pain for the loss of her friend through her attempt to understand the behavior of that man. There is nothing wrong With that.

    You matter and are worthy Sophie. He is not.

    #590120 Reply

    KateK

    ^^ what Marie said. Jen is rude and a bully. She comes here to give “advice” but she gets off on demeaning other women who are looking for a friendly ear and perspective. Ridiculing people and calling them names… judging their character and diagnosing them off of one or two posts is ludicrous. Jen, go to the gym, take up kickboxing or something, you clearly have anger to work out and we’re not interested.

    Sophie, you sound exhausted. Forget about his man for now and focus on you. You will see things for what they are once you are feeling rested and peaceful. You deserve better than some loser fishing for sex and some woman dishing out insults desguised as “advice”.

    #590121 Reply

    Grace12

    Jesus Christ. Leave the poor girl alone. She came here looking for support and advice and everyone (except Nat who has given kind, great advice) jumped all over her. This is supposed to be a forum where women support each other. You can do that while being truthful and blunt, but this thread is way out of hand. Talk about a bunch of mean girls. Go back and read what you all have written here. Sophie probably feels worse now than before she posted.

    Sophie, there is some great advice hidden among all the screaming and shaming. I hope you were able to find some of it and use it. This guy sucks. I wouldn’t entertain another text from him. Move forward and be kind to someone who deserves it.

    #590138 Reply

    Sophie

    I know I was pretty angry today – and reacted pretty strongly. It’s been a rough day. I think I am in the anger stage of grief and projecting it onto this guy because I can’t direct it anywhere else.

    My friend had a really hard life. Her Dad died when she was a teenager, then she had a lot of bad luck with bad men who messed her around. She got cancer at age 26 and battled it for 3 years (losing her womb and the chance of children in the process) and then finally found happiness and “Mr Right” when she was 32 and her soulmate. they were totally inseparable and happy together and about a year ago he died in their house, aged 39 of a heart attack for no real reason. She grieved like crazy and went off the rails and never recovered. She died a few days ago almost a year after he did, also aged 39, also in their house. Such a weird and tragic story but I am consumed with anger that her life wasn’t better – that she never for children (she loved kids) or her wedding or the chance to grow old and have a few happy years.

    I guess I just got so enraged with this guy partly because he is a foolish idiot and wasted my time, and partly because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The idiot did, as expected, call me tonight – like clockwork, every night. He always calls and messages me.

    The funny thing is, because he does this – I actually know Nat is right and he is not actually GETTING all this sex he raves about. I answered the phone and talked to him calmly (I had gotten all the anger out here) and I just felt nothing but sorry for him. He’s getting older, he’s not in the best health, and I think in a lot of ways I am one of his only friends. As loose a friendship as that is, I think he’s never actually had a woman friend before.

    In the months I have known him, he has had no nights out with friends, no visitors that I know about, and pretty much every night he talks to me. He has kids in their late teens who are with him 3 nights a week, but in a few years that will stop too. I think he doesn’t even really date that well! He’s never been in love, he’s never let his feelings go, he’s never made love in a swimming pool or really done anything or seemingly lived a life in a fully present way. He uses empty sex as a way to feel alive and I think when he fills women with BS he probably wants to believe it but he hasn’t got the balls to take a chance on love and the vulnerability it would involve. It’s a pretty sad and pathetic existence.

    I was able to be just be myself and speak from my heart. I was really calm on the phone and I told him that he is writing the pages of the story of his life, and that he should take more care of the story he makes for himself. He tried to make a joke and said he was writing the sex chapters, but I think he also heard what I was saying and it hit a nerve.

    He said I sounded sad and was I okay and stuff and then he asked me if I had regretted being with him, and I said I didn’t regret it, but I would have chosen not to give him a chance if I had known how he would behave. He said he was really sorry I felt that way and he sounded a bit like he actually was sorry. I told him that maybe it was time we stopped talking because I didn’t think it was the right thing for me and because he was always unable to stop coming onto me. He said okay, but he also started to say that maybe if we talked as friends and were friends for a while he would / might change his mind and want to commit to a future with me.

    I felt really like he totally missed the point. I never wanted him to commit to a future with me – just to the simple curtosy of not having sex with other people while he was dating me. I didn’t even know at the time if I liked him or not, but I sure wasn’t going to hang around under those parameters.

    I think he is just lonely. Avoidance of love. He is the kind of guy who would chase me all over again now I have walked away and out of his life; but then as soon as he got a second chance he would do the same thing all over again. So insecure in himself that he sees more value / achievement in getting notches on his bedpost to prove his attractiveness and worth, than just seeing how much worth there could have been in just being with someone and caring about them.

    I could have liked him, regardless of phsyical flaws, but his behavior is just too much for me. I want someone who is loving and open and communicative and all of those things.

    So I guess I dealt with it in the best way I know how, which is by being myself. I have always believed when someone acts like a jerk it is usually out of fear / insecurity and that they just project it outwards but today it just got to me. Maybe he won’t hear what I was trying to convey, maybe he will, but I do believe his smug arrogance is a cover for being pretty lonely and insecure deep down.

    I guess healthy, happy people don’t avoid getting close to other people. I can’t imagine how lonely his life would be,

    Thank you everyone for the listening and the help.

    #590139 Reply

    Tallspicy

    I am sorry you are in pain. But, I question that you should be dating. I do not see a man who did anything wrong. He was dating, period.

    Men say things they do not mean in the moment, that is why you take it with a grain of salt to see if actions and words match.

    He did not insult you from what I read, he was honest and clear, not mean.

    If my daughter came to me with this, I would say don’t date if you can’t take what dating entails. That means not getting invested, giving less f&cks, and not asking questions you are unprepared to accept the answers.

    This man is not a bad guy.

    #590141 Reply

    Sophie

    Tallspicy, I really could not agree with you any less.

    Most men who tell you they want a relationship mean what they say and act on it. And they should do that. Most men do not feel the need to have sex with everything that moves and they desire a meaningful connection every bit as much as women do. the way you normalise “player” behavior is worrying, worrying for future generations where people start caring so little for the feelings of others that we forget to even judge the basics of right and wrong.

    Any man who says he wants a relationship to get you into bed IS a bad person. I am sorry…it’s a kind of emotional rape actually. I have slept with 5 people in the past decade and this is the only one I regret. And I resent that being taken from me.

    Why have sex on a second date? Because this guy had put soooo much time into pursuing me and convincing me he really, really liked me that at the time I did it I felt there was absolutely no possibility of him doing this. It does not even make logical sense to do this. If you like a girl that much, even if it IS just sex to you then generally you want to keep having that sex, so the Mr Dissapearo act right after is actually kind of self defeating.

    Before the sex, he was open, attentive, communicative, available 24 / 7 and texting or calling me daily. After the sex? It evaporated. And you can say “wait 5 or 6 dates..but he would have done the same thing. It has nothing to do with the sex being bad (he still wants it desperately) or him not finding me to be good company (he still wants to talk to me constantly) or me being wrong for him (no one knows that after 2 dates) but it’s because he’s not prepared to invest in authentic connections.

    If he wants to be like that he has every right – but he does not have a right to drag other people into it and hurt people. He has a responsibility to other people to consider the effect of his actions.

    When did sex become just like shaking hands? This stuff is supposed to mean something, it is supposed to be important and we have rights to the truth so we can make emotionally healthy choices with the full knowledge of the implications.

    Where does the line lie? It is okay to say things you don’t mean in the heat of the moment? Is it okay to tell a girl you love her? Want a relationship with her? Is it okay to lie about your age? Job? Name? Not tell her you are married?

    How does honesty have such a low price for you?

    I am not saying he is evil, but I am saying that people have a right to expect honesty, transparency, truth and someone who cares about their thoughts, feelings and needs. This is not “just dating” this is in any human interraction.

    I date- but I don’t use other people to feed my ego or trample their boundaries or ignore their needs. The choices I make reflect both what I want and what the other person wants. Anything else is wrong

    #590149 Reply

    Tallspicy

    This is just as much on you. You are not a victim. I am sorry, please look at your actions, not just his. He is not great, but you have no boundaries, you don’t wait to have someone prove their words and you do not understand men at all.

    All men look for sex and find love. Men are not the same as women. It is our job to make sure he does not get what he wants,without you getting what you want. I am sorry, but at two dates, it does not matter what he said because it is on you to wait and pace to ensure he says and acts consistently. Men say a lot and they mean it in the minute. And no one owes you anything.

    You had sex on a second date, you chose that. I don’t do this. You did not choose to wait until he proved himself to you. You allowed his sweet talking with no consistency to allow that. I don’t do that either. And emotional rape? Shame on you for suggesting something you chose and concentEd to is like that. You should never sleep with someone unless you are ok with them walking away. He did not owe you a relationship at 3 dates.

    I used to, and then I got with the program of how men are. I have no expectations of them, and wait for one who over time proves himself.

    #590150 Reply

    Tallspicy

    He could be a not so great guy, but your behavior allowed this all to happen, every step. Stop analyzing him and work on your own stuff. Like properly grieving your friend.

    #590151 Reply

    Kate

    Wow… so now your a victim?

    You have serious issues. You fell for a bunch of talk and now it’s all his fault.
    You said you didn’t even like him but now you are admitting deep hurt?

    You take ownership for believing that a man after only a few dates sees a future with you, because that’s craziness. You chose to sleep with the man willingly, you were not raped.

    You feel like an idiot because you fell for it, but it’s your responsibility to filter theough the BS and not get caught up in words of a total stranger.

    I don’t care if he told you he wanted to marry you in date three! Somewhere in your 20 years of dating you would realize that you have to get to know someone over time to really know them. So at least take ownership that you decided to have sex quickly and now feel burned because it didn’t mean more than just sex to him.

    Yes, he is acting douche like… but learn how to pace things and get to know someone. You are correct, he could have done the same thing if you waited 6 weeks to have sex, but by then you would have had more time to see what he was about and it would have given more time for him to reveal his true self.

    Of course a man will come on strong trying to impress you early on. But that doesn’t mean you run with it and fall for it.

    I think you spect way too much from strangers you are meeting online. There are more men, than not, on dating sites looking for easy hook ups. This likely won’t be the last one, if you continue to meet men using that media.

    Stop blaming all men or th world because you made a bad decision. You seem to have this fantasy that strangers owe you kindness and truth, that’s not the real world. Which is why you narrow down your field of friends and intimates to those who want to know and care for you.

    #590155 Reply

    Jamie

    Reading the stuff you women write, I’m shocked anyone bothers posting on here at all.

    So many of you are genuinely nasty people. I really think you’re projecting your issues onto innocent women. You’re all the ones in need of therapy.

    #590156 Reply

    L

    Lol, Jamie
    Most if the women on here are either in therapy or need it.

    #590159 Reply

    Devon

    Ya really believe that a man who has sex with you on date two is doing so because it has emotional meaning to him? You really need to learn more about how men think. Sorry you are hurting, but that kind of thinking isn’t going to help your future dating experiences.

    You said you were ok if he didn’t really want a future with you, that you didn’t think he could really decide after only two dates if he didn’t think you were a good fit, yet you thought he would get emotionally connected through sex?

    #590160 Reply

    jessica

    Sophie,
    You have just articulated so well what I have been feeling for a while now, after being single for the past few years.
    “Most men who tell you they want a relationship mean what they say and act on it. And they should do that. Most men do not feel the need to have sex with everything that moves and they desire a meaningful connection every bit as much as women do. the way you normalise “player” behavior is worrying, worrying for future generations where people start caring so little for the feelings of others that we forget to even judge the basics of right and wrong.

    Any man who says he wants a relationship to get you into bed IS a bad person.”

    A lot of the women on here offer the advice that you should take what a man says in the beginning of the relationship with a grain of salt and wait until is words match his actions (which I agree with)…especially since so many women are getting ghosted on after giving up sex to a man who SAID a lot of things…however, I find that because of this notion women are dismissing this kind of behavior as “normal” male behavior and it is in fact BAD behavior. I agree that any man who says he wants a relataionship to get you into bed IS a bad person and I know a lot of guys who would never do that .

    #590162 Reply

    Jenae

    This has turned into quite a soap opera.

    Don’t like what you’re watching? Change the channel. The more you complain, the more of the same you will get, without fail. Like attracts like.

    When people piss you off and push your buttons it is actually YOUR issue. If I told you that you are a fat old whore, would you fly into a rage and insult me back and say how dare you talk to me that way and explain why you are NOT a fat old whore, or would you laugh and walk away and not think twice about it? Either response is just a choice.

    OP, keeping up this thread is not helping you feel any better, you seem to be getting angrier and angrier. This is not one bit about this man. It’s all about you. When you see that, you will feel better. Sorry to see you in such pain. But you can stop it in a nanosecond if you get off the victim wagon and stop beating up on yourself so much. So you made a bad decision. It was 3 dates. No one owes you anything and you don’t have a right to expect anything from anyone. If you don’t like what they are doing, you move on. The sooner you get that the easier it will be happy and avoid this sort of thing.

    If you want to handle with dignity and class, stop responding to him and just drop this whole thing. Get away from the computer and stop projecting the sadness and pain you are feeling about your friend and yourself on this hapless man who isn’t worth another ounce of your energy or time.

    #590180 Reply

    Peggy

    Well said Janae-you articulated in a precise way what most of us ladies have been saying.

    #590200 Reply

    Amy

    “He said “for some reason I just don’t see us together””
    I would have replied that for many reasons I feel he same he does but I usually let time decide if I’m wrong or right. But neither you or him have time to waste so perhaps it’s for the best.
    I don’t think you see yourself together with him either. Don’t let a wounded ego affect you more than it should. If you would make you feel better to hurt his ego back act indifferent and agree that he isn’t a catch either or just have fun teasing and then drop it suddenly.
    Don’t analyse him or his commitment issues. It’s a waste of time. Take advantage of his blunt reply to move on. Next! should be all you need to say.
    If you want to end friendly you can politely say what you feel might be the issue, be honest but be detached and let him know there are his choices to deal with and we all have our own things to work about ourselves.

    #590201 Reply

    Tallspicy

    The short version of this is she was mad that he slept with or was open to sleeping with others when sleeping with her.

    On a third date, that is unreasonable expectation, unless she explicitly asked or he said he was not. And even then, you barely know each other so maybe it is best to slow down and make out for a bit. This is not… do you want a relationship, this is are you sleeping with others or do you plan to? This is him saying no, I am not sleeping with others and I don’t plan to. Asking a man if he wants a relationship or listening to him say that and then assuming that means with you and right now is a huge leap on the 3rd date.

    Expecting men to be men is not normalizing bad behavior, it is accepting them as they are and taking responsibility for your own mental health and emotional health. That means waiting, having clear communication, stop talking to someone who treats you not well.

    #590207 Reply

    Pauline

    Consider yourself lucky Sophie.

    The guy was made it clear about not wanting a relationship with you on date 3. PERIOD.
    From that moment, you should have said “Ok, I had fun with you. I wish you well.” and leave and cut contact. There you have your dignity.

    You are so lucky because so many women stay with men who make them believe they could end up being in a relationship, and toy with their emotions. They come and go, but never say out loud that they don’t want a relationship with THEM. They might say “not ready”, “let’s go with the flow”, “I’m too busy” leaving the woman in a confused state.

    This is why so many women on here give you though love. They went through this. You are lucky.

    Why are you hurt? He doesn’t know who you are. He doesn’t know the real you. How could he say he doesn’t feel it then? You don’t fall in love with every guys, do you?

    At 47, he might have commitment issues, maybe he is narcissist, maybe a sociopath, and so on… You’ll never know and it’s not your problem.

    I agree that you should do some therapy because of all the losses you went through. It will help you :-)

    #590216 Reply

    Sophie

    I will just say I am pretty sad and horrified bu the attitudes of some of the women here. I am sorry you have such low expectations of human beings and men who date you – I have very high expectations and hopes and intend to keep them!

    I am accustomed to men who tell me the truth, treat me nicely, don’t lie, don’t feel the need to screw everything that moves, speak with sensitivity and very much want “love” rather than empty sex – and I am sorry all of you have had the opposite experience.

    Perhaps because you seem to have such cynical, cold attitudes to life and other people’s feelings you attract men of the same ilk.

    I am not angry anymore today – just a little flabbergasted by some of the people here and how much energy they expend on trying to be nasty to people on the internet when they asked for help!

    I don’t see tough love going on here on 90% of the posts – I mostly see really bitter women taking out their own issues on an anonymous stage.

    #590218 Reply

    Tallspicy

    It is a shame you feel that way, that you won’the take any responsibility and show yourself the victim, unwilling to learn and adjust.

    Btw, my guess is this is not a great guy, which is not your fault. But owning your participation is. That means not being nice to get nice back, that means waiting till actions and words match, and most importantly, moving on and saying good riddance without all the drama if someone is not a good fit. Oh yeah, and not making assumptions about what things mean and asking direct questions.

    My guess is you will have more similar experiences, but I hope that is not true. Anytime you are out of which with what is, people dig into me me me. Instead you could just free yourself by keeping high standards for you and waiting to ensure that they meet your standards instead.

    You still never answered if you actually asked before sex or explained your expectations of sex, my guess is you assumed. If I am wrong, well, then he is is jerk and be glad to be rid of him. If he said, I want a relationship with you now, growing and monogomous, but did not do that, then he is a jerk, and you should still slow your roll.

    #590219 Reply

    Tallspicy

    Btw, i usEd to be just like you. Overly invested and so angry when things did not work out with all sorts of righteous indignation about how people should people. People are not should, people do what they do, it is up to you to own your part, your experience and your part. Dating is so much more fun now because I am not in a rush, and see all those words as we’ll see and it’seems ok if you don’t want what I want, good luck!

    #590220 Reply

    Tallspicy

    Check oUT byron katie, she is the master of helping people get out of should and love what it.

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