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June 12, 2018 at 2:44 pm #707205
And…don’t ghost him. Tell him you’ve realized you both want different things, good luck, and goodbye.
Always take the high road, that way you never feel about who you are.
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip” – Winston Churchill.
That is a quote I live byJune 12, 2018 at 2:45 pm #707206
*that way you never feel bad..June 12, 2018 at 3:34 pm #707219
Her first post said they DID end up having sex, if you read all the way down.
I think the OP knows he’s wasting her time but will see him anyway, and have to learn the hard way.June 12, 2018 at 7:04 pm #707241
Possible unpopular opinion ahead: your fatal flaw was not sleeping with him too soon (in and if it’s own.) Your fatal flaw was sleeping with him too soon when what you want and what you’re after is clearly a committed relationship. Where you make plans every 3-4 days, where you bring soup when he’s sick, where he’s texting you sweet nothings all the live long day and woo’ing you. You lied to yourself and sorry but you lied to him too. You told him, by your actions, that it was fine to have sex without commitment. Without defining the relationship. Without the obligations boyfriends and girlfriends have to one another. I’m in the “you pushed him away by being too weirdly clingy when he was ‘sick’” crew. Everyone, not just men, need their own space and time sometimes. I’m one of them so I should know. Regardless of whether or not he was actually sick and whatever he was doing, he didn’t want to be with you that day. The end. You’re either ok with a man who needs his space and time or you are not. You can’t push someone who doesn’t want to see you into wanting to see you by constant texts every day. Even if he relented and said ok, is that what you want? Him out with you because you made him be? You need to slow this way way down. Not because you’re trying to court him. Not because he gave you a yellow light. Not because his behavior has changed. You need to slow this way way down for you. You barely know this guy and in two weeks time you have doubts and questions and have flip flopped on this forum 3-4 times, complete 180s, insofar as whether or not you’ll ever see him again. You don’t know what you’re doing or what you want. Just stop. Put a pin in it. Reflect. What’s the rush?? The sex too soon thing – I don’t buy into that – on its face. The guy I’ve been casually dating for nearly six months – we slept together on the first date. And we are still casually dating. BECAUSE I WANT CASUAL. And I told him so. So sex on the first date – not a deal breaker – UNLESS you want something you’re not telling him. In which case you can’t chastise him because YOU have lied. How many times on this forum do we say “actions speak louder than words?” Who cafes what he says it’s what he does that matters? Why does that apply to men and not us?? Why do we call them aholes when they sleep with us – because we let them and in doing so imply we are ok with the arrangement the way it is – and then blame THEM when THEY are not candid with US?? That’s bs. Take some responsibility. Apologize to him for not being honest and taking to this forum to talk about the wrongs he did when you, OP, are guilty of the same.June 12, 2018 at 7:28 pm #707243
Kaye – it wasn’t a stomach bug. Sounded like shivers, headache, and a cold. I think it was probably NOTHING but that’s what he said. And actually, he initially only said he was sick, with no explanation (keep in mind his texting style is long novels, which has not changed. We’ve never been the type to text each other a couple sentences. It’s usually been long texts 3-4 times a day. Initiated by him. even with the slower time between texts they are still long and he still uses terms of endearment and emojis, etc.)
I guess it did appear pushy. But I agree with Anon who said if you have to keep a guy interested by playing games, he’s not the one for you. If a man is interested in you, super interested, he sees this turning into a relationship (as he said to me a few times) then this would not have been an issue. He would have seen it for what it was, which was me trying to attempt a nice gesture for someone who I am interested in. me casually saying I hope we can see each other this weekend, AS PLANNED, would not be seen a pushy or naggy. And ive said it a few times already, HE NEVER SAID NO to meeting up on Monday. He left if VAGUE. So I said ok, let me know. Boom. What’s so bad about that?
It’s messed up that me being nice and honest is somehow being turned around on me being this stupid, naïve girl who will never get a man. Like really? I don’t want a man who can’t appreciate those things about me.
Mackenzie, thank you. I came to this forum for advice and I’ve gotten some amazing feedback, and some incredibly harsh and negative feedback that’s only made me feel worse about the situation. I understand I probably had sex too soon and that I may have come on too strong this weekend. But if the man is truly only after sex, if I made him wait a couple more weeks this still would have been the end result except I would’ve been even more emotionally invested.
I wish I could say all the things this guy fed me about wanting and seeing a future with me, the questions he’d ask like do you want a big wedding? Always mentioning future plans however small such as he wants to take me to this place and that place, that he told his mom about me, if I knew what I wanted, and when I told him what I wanted he said that we wanted the same things, blah blah blah. Looking back it was probably all just a script, but it made me feel confident about where we were and what he saw with me.
Another red flag I wanted to mention was his most recent ex was 10 years younger than him, and they were together for a total of two months, from meeting to breaking up. I thought it was odd that he considered her his gf after such a short time. He told me she was too young and he realised that she wouldn’t be able to settle down, which is what he supposedly wants. I knew this early on, and it told me that this man gets into relationships quickly, so I felt like the speed of our courtship was just his style, and I understood when he had the convo with me about not rushing this time because of his past.
Someone asked me about the timeline – we started talking in early april, we met mid-april, I left 2 days later for nearly 3 weeks. Had our second date mid-may. After that we saw each other pretty much once a week, we’ve had 5 dates total. The overnight date #4 turned into all-day on Saturday as well, so over 24 hours together.
Anyway. I have decided to take him up on his offer of another date because a lot of these conclusions I have come to based on assumption and I don’t want to walk away with any regrets or “what if”. I asked for a week night, he said he couldn’t, wants to do this Friday. I will not give him sex. I will have an honest conversation with him, I want to ask why he has been more distant this week and see what he says, go from there. If he’s a player he will play it off and attempt to pull the charm. What do you think ladies, how should I broach it? I also am weary of having a super serious relationship convo, but I do need answers.June 12, 2018 at 7:32 pm #707244
I also wanted to mention that while I was away for those few weeks, we talked daily, not even that flirtatious, basically friendly and getting to know each other. I know texting creates a false sense of intimacy, but when we did have sex I had already been speaking to him for nearly 2 months, had met him six weeks prior, had 3 weeks of just talking, and had 2 more dates before doing the deed. So it felt like I knew him more than I actually did, which led me to trust him more than I should have. Stupid, but that’s how it happened.June 12, 2018 at 7:40 pm #707245
Lol. Ok to be honest, sleeping with each other is not what I’m upset about. I fully went into having sex with him knowing that he is not my boyfriend. However, he knew I wanted a boyfriend, and he told me he wanted a girlfriend. I never said that he had to be my boyfriend to have sex with me, because I don’t necessarily think it has to be that way. You can sleep with someone and have it turn into something later. He told me he saw us going that way, he said it’s on the way there, he said he misses me when I’m not around, blah blah blah.
I’m upset about him not being honest with me. If he is still seeing other girls, and using tinder, why tell me he is not doing that? Why set up a date with me on Friday if he in fact didn’t want to? Why pretend to be sick? And then slow the communication wayyyyyy down instead of just being honest and upfront that maybe he doesn’t see it with me anymore. His immaturity in this situation is what I have an issue with.June 12, 2018 at 7:42 pm #707246
Erma, there was not “constant texts every day”. We have been texting every day since we met. I reply to his text, he replies to mine, it’s a conversation flow. I did not and have not ever bombarded him with messages. Apparently I shouldn’t have been caring about him being sick and I shouldn’t have asked to see him that weekend, apparently you can’t do that as a woman. Lesson learned.June 12, 2018 at 7:51 pm #707247
My apologies, OP. You seem to have all of the answers. I hope you understand all the confusion here tho, seeing as how you posted this topic – a question – seeking advice on the matter(s).June 12, 2018 at 7:56 pm #707248
I appreciate peoples input. I’m just clarifying how it actually went down. You make it sound like I was texting him all weekend asking to hang out, when that’s not an accurate picture. I see that I probably should have just immediately backed off after he bailed on our plans, but I was emotional about it and still thinking he was possibly *the one*.
More backstory – I have baggage from my ex of two years who cheated on me and was dishonest with me on many occasions. So when I start seeing a new guy, I find myself paranoid about small things. So this whole thing has been stressful because I don’t know if I’m just being paranoid based on my previous experiences, or if there is actually something. Most of you agree that there is something fishy with this guy, which is why I was seeking advice to see what others would do in my shoes.June 12, 2018 at 9:01 pm #707252
This whole scenario of getting off to a jack rabbit start rarely works out.
A guy asking you if you’d want a big wedding early on is a red flag, as are a number of the things he did and said. Guys like this get in fast, say all the right things to reel a woman in and then no later than three months in, either ghost or suddenly become distant and then confess they moved too fast, they aren’t ready for a relationship and they’re so sorry but it’s over. Sometimes it’s a game they deliberately play, sometimes they are deluding themselves as much as they are deluding the woman.
That is probably what you are in for… but maybe not, who knows.
You seem to have worked this out for yourself. Hope it works out for you.June 12, 2018 at 11:19 pm #707269
Phillipgirl, many relationships start out with the men looking to have some fun. I think it was OK that op had sex with him without a commitment and she also said she was OK about that.
What I think was one of the problems was: op is putting on a lot of focus on a man’s words. I know in the western culture people prefer to talk it out. But I do also come across many men or women who were very vague when it comes to dating. They can say anything at the moment but barely mean it. Or they are rejecting you bit they won’t say it out. For example, he was blowing her off for the long weekend date, but he told her he had work, he was sick, he went out with friends, all seemed legit, but he was canceling the date indirectly. I am not sure about other men, but according to my own experience, men are often very vague when they are rejecting you or doing a slow fade, because they do not want the woman to cause a big drama. So op, you cannot count on his words.June 12, 2018 at 11:20 pm #707270
Deal with your baggage and your trust issues before you go out dating again. Or you will keep repeating this. Take it from some of us here who are older than you, get your dating act together now, learn your worth and how to screen men out fast so you don’t waste a lot of years in unhappy relationships or unhappily single.June 12, 2018 at 11:22 pm #707272
The most alarming part of this whole thing is in fact OPs rationalizing. Who even cares about the guy’s behavior at this point. If she doesn’t figure out a different approach/mentality, I’m afraid this will be a reoccurring theme for her. Good luck, OP. You’ve been armed with knowledge and suggestion. Use it.June 12, 2018 at 11:27 pm #707275
I didn’t expect him to commit and become my boyfriend after (what has now been) 4 weeks of in person interaction. Based on his words and actions up until this last weekend, I thought we were in a place that we clearly were not. No, not a committed relationship. But dating, and not dating other people. Which is what he said to me.
Honestly I’m sick of women belittling and blaming other women for the bad behavior of men. This man led me on. How is that ok and my fault?June 12, 2018 at 11:42 pm #707279
Trust me. If I were belittling you, you would know it. I’m not saying what you want to hear. I’m not handling yiubwith kid gloves. I’m not agreeing with your position. I’m also not belittling you. I don’t believe this man deceived you in any way. Sorry, but I don’t. Did he say “this relationship will continue to grow and blossom and go down this path even after sex?” No? Then there has been no deception. You had no conversation about it. You did not ask. You hoped – but you never confirmed. You don’t like what’s happening now and who would blame you? Despite what you say, IMO you did want something serious (immediately) out of this as evidenced by your behavior and your constant justifications on here today. He didn’t respond accordingly and it hurt you. Everyone understands that and we can empathize. Hell most of not all of us have been there. But we aren’t going to tell you it’s jot your fault/you played no part/he’s a devil man who premeditated all of this and intentionally lied to you. “Do the exact same thing you did this time next time OP.” Where the hell does that get you?! Imagine what your guy’s post here would say, “ We talked about maybe being serious one day but not immediately. She told me she wanted to take it slow and let things progress naturally – just like me. Then she slept with me and flipped the script. I got sick and she texted me every day over the weekend. She got upset when I didn’t text her flirty/sweet/boyfriend-girlfriend messages post-sex – but she never made that a prerequisite or told me that was an expectation prior to sex. Now she’s saying I’m badly behaved because I didn’t view it the same way she did. As if I’m some sort of mind reader/supposed to just placate her despite what I want (even though I told her I wanted to do things differently this time and take it slowly.) She’s made me the bad guy.” How is that fair?! What I’ve been saying to you all along is – if this guy “duped” you you “duped” him too. Try to look at this from an outsiders perspective and for goodness sake stop playing martyr. Just make a decision as to what your approach will be and one way or another move on.June 12, 2018 at 11:42 pm #707280
You really, really don’t get it.
You were not led on. You went willingly on this hayride for a good reason – to learn that you can’t trust everything a man tells you. It’s actually a very valuable mistake. And we humans learn more from our mistakes than from our wins!
The people who decided to invest with Bernie Madoff ignored the facts that his firm wouldn’t disclose what they were invested in and had positive returns for years on end, both of which are big red flags. A lot of smart people got taken in and lost money. It wasn’t all Madoff’s fault; people had to put on their blinders and ignore reality to go along. The people who are still prepared to write checks to Elizabeth Holmes after the Theranos thing are also ignoring reality. Lots of people ignore reality. Sometimes the consequences are worse in some cases than others.
In your case, you two just had a very short dating experience. Just own that you made a few wrong moves and celebrate that now you know the right moves, rather than insisting on blaming him to avoid responsibility for your end of it. It’s not that big of a deal and this isn’t a case of women belittling or blaming you. This has gotten to be a much bigger drama than it needs to be. Better you learn this at 27 than 37.June 13, 2018 at 7:15 am #707307
There has been enough said here so all I’m going to say is that a man who really wants to be with you will make it clear as day your the only woman in the world he wants to be with! It really is THAT SIMPLE!
What does this man look like? He ACTS on everything HE SAYS while you literally have to say or do nothing but be yourself. The first phase is based on lust or infatuation. this is what it is until such time its CLEAR a man has fallen in love with you and every single day he tells and shows it. Love is CALM, it takes time to develop and only when your still happy together a year plus later can you know if your really a match or not.
Your trying to charge through the lust/infatuation stage and that is NOT the way to date! A woman’s job is to listen, watch and observe a man over period of time to determine if HE would make an excellent partner. HE needs to be the one to SHOW and PROVE TO YOU what an excellent partner HE would make! Your dating backwards, trying to audition for the role of GF instead of making him audition for the role of BF.
This one’s NOT auditioning for the role of BF. Why? Because he’s the type of man who gets a woman hooked on flowery words and the moment he knows he ‘has them’ pulls the fade. Hard to know if he does this intentionally or not (could be a player?); however its clear to me this is based on lust and not going to develop beyond this stage- I’ve been around the block long enough to know when a man’s being real or not—these are the type of guys I RUN FROM!!!June 13, 2018 at 9:00 am #707318
Duchess, I have empathy for you. I have been a “victim” of smooth talkers MANY times. And guys take talk very far at times including future plans, talks of marriage, on and on. It’s easy to get sucked in if you don’t know what legitimate interest feels like.
After almost 2 years, I am FINALLY seeing the difference. It’s a man who speaks to me in a way that makes me wonder “are you that into me?” but takes actions that don’t leave me questioning him. He’s never mentioned sex, marriage or love. Our dates very much feel like “friend dates” except he sets them up and executes them. And they take effort on his part. He doesn’t try and drive me into sex. His communication is regular- like clock work, a mix of calls and texts and clearly getting to know me. Not just empty banter.
I don’t think men purposefully set out to deceive us. I think they get blinded by lust and overall horniness and are as guilty of mistaking that for love as we are. It is hard when a guy floods you with attention to figure out what to do. Perhaps imagine them as a peacock trying to get your attention for mating. It’s basically instinctual.
I don’t believe that a lot of men set out to deceive women. I do think that many don’t know what they want. And honestly, until you’ve experienced real courtship, it’s hard NOT to get confused. You just have to take that initial rush of attention with a big grain of salt and keep steering things away from lust and into getting to know someone.June 13, 2018 at 9:08 am #707322
Anytime Duchess. I hope all goes well with your talk to him.
A lot of assumptions have been made and it really is sad to read. He needs to be held accountable for a lot of things but it seems like a lot of attack in here. I don’t blame you if you chose to not come back in here. Some ladies have been rude for no reason….why tell her to “grow up” ? Uncalled for and unnecessary.June 13, 2018 at 9:42 am #707330
Duchess, you’ve been given some really incredible feedback.
But the crux of all this really seems to pivot back on the fact you’re not yet ready to date healthy. You need to take a step back and work on your own issues of mistrust, past hurt, and learn how to rebuild your confidence and self esteem as a single valuable woman.
I’m no therapist, but I do pay attention and have learned how to observe people and assess situations. Many, if not most of us, have been hurt, misled or deceived by someone we loved in the past.
That hurt does not define us. But it does provide an opportunity to learn and grow. We can use it to shape us into a better, stronger, wiser version of who we were. Or we can use it as an excuse to be afraid, or bitter, or wander around with loads of self destructive doubt and insecurity.
Personally, I’ve been through two very destructive relationships, until I woke up and saw my mistakes in allowing it-and said “no more!” I had to rediscover my own self worth and know my innate value without and outside of any man.
You can not be in any type of healthy relationship until you love and value yourself!
You fell for this guy’s meaningless flowery words and fake promises because you are seeking someone else to validate/fill a hole in you, that only you and God can fix.
Relationships are important, and the most important relationship is the one you have with yourself.
You really need to learn how to love you first, so you can pick better men and recognize the ones that aren’t good for you. You need to learn to read the signs of when to walk away, and how to do it in strength and with your head held high.
This guy here is NOT your life preserver, yet you are clinging to him like he is- like your value and worth are found in him. They aren’t!
Sometimes we need to talk this out with a professional. A therapist, counselor, psychologist -someone trained to walk you down the path of self discovery, truth and self love.
You need to learn to forgive yourself for past mistakes and really like the woman looking back at you in the mirror.
Only then will you develop a nose for BS and learn how to set healthy boundaries.
I really hope you forget this guy and start working on you. That is where your next step should beginJune 13, 2018 at 9:57 am #707333
Amen to philly.
Duchess i call these guys patient zero. You only have to meet and fall for one smooth future im so into you guy to recognize all the others that you may encounter in the future. So you met patient zero and there are a lot more from the same factory he was build in. Take care. If you do go on the date, dont talk about what happened. Just take off after an hour saying you have another appointment (and do have another appointment). That would help you get your ground back a bitJune 13, 2018 at 9:58 am #707334
I really like what you put phillygirl. It was constructive and well put.June 13, 2018 at 10:14 am #707336
“I also feel that if a man feels smothered orcisnt looking for anything serious, just “man up” and say exactly that.”
Yeah, it’s a two way street. At some point men should realize that women generally get a little clingy after sex. It’s not an uncommon occurrence and TBH, our OP’s offer to bring soup and subsequent request for a date is hardly some level 10 craziness. If he felt the need for distance, he could have said “I need some time for myself” or let her know it wasn’t going to work for him.
Men could stand to be a little braver in expressing their needs.June 13, 2018 at 10:25 am #707338
Exactly how I feel.