This topic contains 231 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by Melody 4 years, 3 months ago.
May 25, 2017 at 6:59 pm #629475
Thank you Selene!
I liked your post and glad you came out :). I was very lucky to have a father guide me through the dating process and it’s sad to see so many women flailing about in the dating sea without a paddle. I just try to steer them straight like my father did as well as apply my own experience that I have gained over the past 30+ years ito help others who truly need it.May 25, 2017 at 7:05 pm #629476
I remember your story. I learn a lot from reading here and I stop dating the wrong men because of what I read. I date nice men now and I show this site to my cousins and they learn too. The same stories here all the time, I’m sad for the ones who aren’t able to learn like me. They want to be right. They think men are like women. They want love and they go to it all wrong.May 25, 2017 at 9:32 pm #629504
OP, I am sorry to say this, but he is not scared, he is not interested. Well, not interested enough, that is for sure
You had deep conversations, were already intimate and he is not even talking to you in the gym? what an idiot!! and you are planning to force yourself on him and go to his house and confess your love? unbeliavable…
I agree with what Georgia said, “This “he has told me he feels lonely and that ultimately everybody ends up disappointing him” means HE put people in a position to disappoint him so that he could continue to live this story with this identity.May 25, 2017 at 11:03 pm #629517
Yes, everyone has a story they tell themselves…and that is how they live. If you want to change your life you have to change your story….interesting isn’t it?
And I have always enjoyed Lane’s advice. Her father taught her well. It is too bad that women do not have a mentor to understand men better so that they “get it”.
I do know that women who make a man the center of their universe to the point that their identity and life revolves around him will be hurt or at the very least disappointed with the outcome. It follows as well that letting the man make all the decisions when it comes to a relationship is not in the woman’s best interests…she has to decide if this man matches what she wants out of life…without making a choice about that she is not taking responsibility for her life.May 26, 2017 at 2:11 am #629534
I’m with the others who say not to chase him. He’s actively ignoring you at the moment. Turning up at his home and giving him a speech about your feelings isn’t going to go down well if he’s not even talking to you at the gym.
Give him space and see if he eventually tries to get closer to you again. If he doesn’t, you have you answer right there! If he does try to get closer, that is the time to talk to him.
I have some single male friends about this guy’s age. They’ve either tried a LTR and decided it wasn’t for them or they’re too messed up to have one. One of my friends sounds like your guy. He’s stunningly gorgeous (better than any movie star etc), the most attractive man I’ve ever seen, dresses beautifully, has an amazing life,is intelligent, sensitive and loads of fun. I wonder how many women have been in your situation with him over the years!! I think he’d like to find someone in a way but she’d have to be seriously amazing for him to give up his lifestyle for and risk getting hurt for. He hasn’t met her and I doubt he ever will.
I think you’re getting something similar to what women get from my friend. They can sense he’s sensitive, has a vulnerable side and wants to open up so they chase that. What they don’t see is he’s been like that since he was 15! I tried a relationship with him twice but he was too much hard work. Some women love hard work though! The last woman he was with stayed for 4 years hoping to change him. Eventually she got fed up and gave him am ultimam. He threw the “you know I don’t do relationships, I told you that from the start” thing at her.
Don’t be like her and waste 4 years (or any time!) on someone who never was or will be yours. If he feels the way you do (which is unlikely), he’ll come back to you committed to making something work. If he does come back, don’t accept him with open arms. Make it clear you don’t like and won’t accept on-off behaviour. He has one chance and that’s it. He’ll either step up or (most likely) run for the hills.
Going back to my friend, we have always got on because I understand him. Most women see him as an amazing charismatic man who is some kind of prize. What he actually is is a lost little boy. Who wants a relationship with a lost little boy?! I think your man is the same.May 26, 2017 at 2:13 am #629535
I love Lane!
Lane, be my adopted mom!May 26, 2017 at 6:48 am #629564
Guys, thank you so much for your input! I know a lot of you fear that I won’t listen to your advice, but I’m really trying to take in everything you’re saying and learning from it. If you haven’t guessed it already, I’m a very inexperienced dater. I’ve only ever been in love three times (this guy is my third) and the two others I was in a committed relationship with for 3 and 8 years. So. I know love. I know relationships. These two guys are also the only other guys I’ve ever slept with and almost the only other guys I’ve kissed.
I put guys I meet into one of three buckets: 1) don’t care. 2) friends. 3) In love. As I said, I’ve only ever been interested/in love with three guys. I almost never fall for someone, but when I do it’s serious. At least for me. I’ve had wonderful relationships and I’ve been treated well. I know I’m a very good girlfriend and I will do anything for the man I love. It’s intense, but I’ve always been this way. Oh, and with the three men I’ve been in love with, I’ve known right away.
That being said, I AM very inexperienced with this whole dating thing. My 8 year relationship was with a man that was blowing hot and cold in the beginning too, not really paying that much attention to me at first, but everytime I tried to move on he would reach out. He was definitely not emotionally available, but after more than half a year of me really trying, he made his move and made me his girlfriend. Everybody told me to move on, that he would never step up and that I deserved way better. Our relationship was really beautiful.
I don’t know if this experience has messed me up because now I kind of feel like I’m in the same situation with this new guy. Everybody tells me to move on and forget about it, that he will never be the man I see in him, and that I deserve way better. And I keep telling myself the same thing, but when I finally feel convinced he pulls me right back in. He did today.
Saw him at the gym, and I tried to ignore him. He jumped right in front of me, waved and smiled at me, looked really happy to see me. Later, he walked by me and smacked me in the butt with his water bottle, I turned around and hit him on the shoulder and he turned to me, laughing. When I was leaving he came up and talked to me and then left with me and walked with me to my street. We were talking about a lot of things, and I knew he was late for work, but he stopped at my street and continued talking with me. Then when I wanted to leave, he pulled me in for a big hug and a “Will I see you tomorrow?”.
@Crisula – you mentioned he could suffer from a narcissistic disorder. Funny you would mention it … I was talking to my mom about this, and I told her “his behavior reminds me a lot about how my dad used to act towards you when I was a kid.” and she said “I didn’t want to say anything, but that was just what I was thinking”, and then she sent me a link to an article about dating narcissistic men (my parents are divorced).
I definitely do see a lot of my dad in him – and that is both a bit scary and exciting at the same time. My biggest fear is that I will act like my mom did around my dad towards him, but I don’t see that happening; not right now at least. I tell this guy my opinion all the time. He will say something that I disagree on, and he always states everything like it’s the obvious truth, and I tell him my opinion. He will try to shut me down, but I’m not afraid to speak my mind and I always do around him. Unless it’s about my feelings, obviously.
I understand why a lot of you don’t want me to talk to him – heck, I don’t even want to! But I feel like it’s the right thing to do, for me. Not for him. This is solely for me. As I stated previously, I’m not the kind of girl who sleeps around and who has casual relationships (not that there is anything wrong with that – my best friend is like that, and I respect her just as much as anybody else), and I want him to know that. That what we have is special to me, and if he doesn’t feel the same way then I have to move on. I will not propose a relationship or nothing, because I don’t feel like I know him well enough. I want to get to know him better, and I will tell him that ultimately I’m looking for a committed relationship, and if he’s not then we have to stop this back and forth game. Because it’s messing with my emotions.
I don’t feel like that will make me look needy or that I will loose any dignity by telling him this. I feel like there’s a strength in being vulnerable and telling somebody how you work and what you’re looking for. I would have respect for somebody if they did that. So we will see. Of course I’m hoping for the best, because some stupid part of me really see something here … Even if I shouldn’t and if it’s not really there.May 26, 2017 at 7:36 am #629568
Well thats another thread down with a waste of good advice.May 26, 2017 at 7:40 am #629569
@Georgia, you are so right. I was thinking the exact same thing about him. I can understand that people end up disappointing him – I’m actually kind of the same way. I go out of my way like crazy for the people I love, only to realize they won’t do the same for me when I really need them. And it hurts. At one point I was really hesitant to let new people into my life because I felt like they would end up letting me down. But then I decided I wouldn’t judge anybody just because of other people’s shortcomings. So. That’s what I told him when he said that. That I felt like if that was his expectation of someone new trying to come into his life, then he would never allow someone to show him that they wouldn’t let him down. That made him completely silent (he’s mostly talking all the time) and he just stared at me like I’d just solved a puzzle for him.
I do ask him a lot of questions about life, dreams and goals and things like that. He seems to really think long and hard when I ask him about stuff, and sometimes when I give my input he seems genuinely excited about it and will then ask a lot of questions the other way. If this is all a game he has perfected, he is one good actor and should be hired for the next big Blockbuster ASAP! Haha. ;)
@Selene – thank you for your response and for taking the time to share your insight, even though you often don’t. Thank you! I would be very surprised if he was a closeted gay, haha! But I guess you can never know … To your other points: as I wrote in my last post here, he reminds me a lot of my father when I was growing up. Same strong mind, communication style, clean, well put together, charismatic and someone people listen to. But at the same time with a low self-esteem and very hung up on what other people are thinking of them. Regarding him wanting a relationship, he’s very mixed here too. He speaks in a negative way about his friends who are in relationships, but at the same time he speaks warmly of his parents and he talks a lot about how he wants marriage and kids – he talks a lot about kids, actually. I’ve seen him with some of his friend’s kids and they adore him and he’s very good with them (which really warmed my heart to see – and I’ve never really wanted kids before).
@Kayla – the highs are amazing, as you’ve said. I’ve had the best days (and nights) with this man and nobody has ever made me feel as amazing, sexy and safe as he has. And yes, they make up for the lows. They really do. It’s a terrible rollercoaster! It’s so scary to see you explain this! Yes – nothing is ever his fault. He was talking about wanting to do a career change, and I told him he could do it and that I thought he would do very well because he’s such a hard worker. But no; he saw a lot of problems and other people were almost holding him back. Ugh. He plays the victim a lot. Which is not really sexy. I try to encourage him, though. But if it’s a serious disorder that might be a waste of time …
@Cristine – Thank you. I agree with you. I’m already very invested in him, and when I talk to him I’ll at least know for sure where he stands. If I was to just cut him off right now, I would always wonder “did I give up too easily? Could we have been more?”. And I feel like I would keep my dignity. Being vulnerable scares me, but uncertainty scares me even more. So. I’m sure it will work out. Somehow.
@Sophia – definitely. I only know the story from his point of view, so I don’t even know if he cheated as well. Only he and she know. My first bf left me for someone else, so I do know the feeling of being cheated on though. And my dad cheated on my mom. But you’re right, he might have been a terrible boyfriend to her. All I know is that he was jealous and possessive – but he justifies it because he was right and she cheated.
You’re so right: I’m in love with his potential. Or the person I’ve seen on numerous occasions. And the thought of seeing that side of him again keeps me hooked. Which I realize sounds like madness. It might even be madness. I will have to let you know once I’ve talked to him.
@Lane – you’re lucky to have had a good dad to guide you! I’ve never talked to my dad about love and relationships, his love life has always been messy. He can be amazing to women, but he’s also controlling, he cheats and he can ignore them like a mad person. I’ve seen this happen all my life, and I’ve never asked him for his advice on men. I don’t think I would want it. So I appreciate your advice! Really. I’m just wondering: in your opinion, is there ever a time where you should give a man a chance? I feel like of course, you should want a man who treats you right, but can you really expect that of a guy you’ve just met (not talking about my situation right now; I realize he’s not acting right)? I feel like sometimes some women push men away because they want them to treat them amazingly even though they barely know each other. And it just confuses me! What is your take on that?
@Pandora – I won’t force myself on him! I will talk to him, like an adult and sort out some things. But you are right, he definitely needs to change his story and see that he’s also at fault for people disappointing him. I have made that point clear to him though.
@Hannah – I’m sorry about your friend. They sound a lot alike, yes. What a waste of a good man, haha! :) My guy is not beautiful in the classic sense. Had I seen a photo of him first, I probably would have said that he’s not my type at all. But there is something about him in real life that I just can’t explain. His body is amazing though, and he is really charming. But I’ve met cuter guys for sure. It’s not about his looks for me. Of course now he’s the most gorgeous man in my eyes – haha!
I can’t believe somebody stayed with your friend for 4 years! That’s a long time. I hope I won’t allow myself to do that. Ugh. I can’t believe how broken she was after 4 years! It’s been 4 months for me, and I’m already fed up! ;) My plan is to not continue if he keeps blowing hot and cold. I hope I have the strength to leave if that’s the case. But first I will see where he stands. I know you told me not to. But I can’t do this anymore …
Thank you guys! I will keep you updated on this …May 26, 2017 at 7:45 am #629572
L, I don’t feel like that’s fair. I’ve read through each response at least 5 times, and I take notes on what people tell me to do. As I said, I’m not really experienced in dating, and that’s why I’m asking on here. Just because I go talk to him doesn’t mean I’m not listening. My question wasn’t if I should talk to him or not, I was asking if there were ever cases where men are too broken/scared or whatever to commit. And I’ve learned a lot already. Even gotten some real life experiences from other women on here that has dealt with a similar type of man. And that really helps.
I’m not denying any advice here, so don’t even go there. I’m not defensive, and I respect every person’s opinion. And the advice DOES actually make me think that I need to demand more for myself, fall in love with myself first and not allow this man to treat me like this. I choose to deal with it by talking to him, that’s what my gut tells me to do.
So please take your passive aggressiveness somewhere else. I AM listeningMay 26, 2017 at 7:57 am #629576
Melody, you sound so sweet and good in explaining yourself. I do think you make this man too much of a mystery to crack. I would do the talk. Sometimes its better to get clarity even the answer is already there. Plus a tiny change of maybe.
I do think you look for daddy types of men. Well you say ot yourself. Look up an article from Alain de botton in the new york times why people often marry the wrong person. They mistake painful youth triggers for love. Youre probably aware of that but it cant hurt to get deeper into that. You had a relationship with a man like that before and its so much work. Its so much easier to love a man that loves you all the way. Its not easy to find him though but once you do, you know how it isMay 26, 2017 at 9:04 am #629581
Melody, I think most of the ladies were spot on in their advice and it seems that you are going to approach him ANYWAY. I would advise you not to as well, but there are exceptions to every rules and I have been friends with men that have been “won” by women that were chasing them. (But let me tell you, these men were no prizes to be had…no job, alcoholics, etc…ewww).
One thing I would like you to consider when the dust has settled…do you have a past history of some sort of abuse?
The reason I am asking is because victims of abuse will often inappropriately confront people who have abused and rejected them in the past seeking some sort of acknowledgement, validation, etc, that based on the person’s previous actions they will NOT get. Instead of just walking away like an emotionally healthy person.
My thoughts are, from an objective standpoint, ignoring you in the gym after the times you’ve shared together is downright RUDE. That’s emotional abuse. If a casual acquaintance with whom you were NOT emotionally invested treated you like that, what would your reaction be? “Screw her. Who needs her anyway.”
Not run after them and confess your feelings.
I don’t care what someone’s excuses are for treating another person badly. At some point you need to take responsibility for your actions. “He’s scared of how deeply he’s falling for him so he’s treating me like cold crap. That’s okay.” No. It’s not okay.
However, everyone has their own journey and everything is a learning experience and no one can predict what will happen. Following your heart doesn’t necessarily mean you will be successful in that endeavor. Sometimes it means just putting a needed ending to a chapter of your life so you can successfully move on.May 26, 2017 at 9:49 am #629586
L spends the majority of her time in this life at her computer making passive aggressive comments on this forum. If i sat at my computer day in and day out reading this forum and coming up with clever put downs, I’d be miserable too.May 26, 2017 at 9:53 am #629587
There isn’t much to add here, ladies have summed it up wonderfully and this is a thread to bookmark. If I may, look up Attachment Theory and a Dismissive Avoidant type. That is him. Take the test and see what you come in as. Look at Jeb Kinnison’s writing. I am a fearful avoidant, but with therapy I’ve tested secure at times. I still have a long way to go. The overarching advice on the forums is to let go of the Dismissive Avoidant. It’s really not worth it. You can be compassionate and empathic to them, but do not be in a relationship with them.
I have some experience I’d like to share. I’ve been the woman, who has converted these types, because, hey, I am an extraordinary woman, right? Thing about projects is that there is a start, middle and end. I work as an Architectural Designer, so this model suits a project well. You eventually leave the client after the transformation has taken place. You move on to the next project. You are rarely in a relationship with a client afterwards, but maybe a light, sweet friendship or acquaintance.
You’re bargaining here that after you “transform” this man into a loving caring, secure boyfriend type, and then you will be in a relationship with him. Thing is, in my experience, after I converted these men, even though I got myself a loyal friend, they even confessed love to me and wanted to be with me, one was my husband; it is still only a new “version” of this SAME person. It’s a stunted version of what you were bargaining for. And YOU will be DISSAPOINTED then. And that’s what it really comes down to. It’s not about him, it is about YOU.
You want to convince someone to love you and care for you, someone, who, as evidence by his behavior is a terrible bet. I’d be careful what you wish for, because you may succeed. True story. And it’s controlling of you although it seems innocent. You are refusing to accept someone for who they are.
Pay attention to people, who are already kind to you, people, who you know will have your back. Because you do not have to change them, see if you can accept their love. See what it feels like to bask in someone’s goodness from the get go. See if you can even handle it. That’s the exercise I would do next, not try to convince a dismissive avoidant to love me, because you’ve already done this exercise before and look how that turned out.May 26, 2017 at 10:51 am #629594
Don’t be a hater. Besides, I may not say many words, but I’m usually spot on in my observations. XxxMay 26, 2017 at 10:58 am #629596
I’m pointing out that many of your comments are very condescending and nasty. Some may think they are funny…but it’s at the expense of others. You might think its funny that a person doesn’t know how to decode whether or not a guy likes them, doesn’t know how to deal with a relationship, etc…but there are reasons behind that. You never know what a person has gone through.
Very rarely do you offer observations that are helpful.May 26, 2017 at 12:33 pm #629603
This is one of those situations where the ladies who have relationship experience and understand men know that there is a 99.8% likelihood that her having this discussion with him is going to end in heartbreak for her. But she insists their situation is different, he opens up to her and shows his vulnerability and all she needs is to show him what a good woman she is and he will get over all his past hurts from woman and they will live happily ever after. But we will be here when she comes back crying and heartbroken when he tells her he doesn’t want a relationship with her because we already know.
And we will be here months from now when she is trying to tell another sweet young girl not to have “the talk” with her guy who is clearly not interested and emotionally unavailable because she knows what that feels like and alas that young girl won’t listen either. There are some lessons in life you just have to learn yourself.May 26, 2017 at 12:55 pm #629607
Melody, you sound like me! I have been lucky in relationships and with my family. I expect everyone to treat me well and I get confused when they don’t. As most women do, I have a tendancy to want to understand and “rescue” people too. The trouble is these good attributes can be our downfall too because we can be too understanding or too willing to accept bad behaviour. We always want to find the good in people!
Take my friend I mentioned as an example. So many women see the same potential in him I did. He would make an amazing partner. But when you get to know him, you see he’s a mess. He had a weird childhood and now has a strange idea about women. His mother was stunning and was out every night with a different man when he was a child, leaving him alone. He has 3 siblings all with different fathers. I don’t think he respects women and has a resentment towards them as a result of his mother, but it also drawn to them and partly wants to find “the one” who can make him feel the love he’s never had. That is something he’d have to fix with intense therapy. He’d also want to have to want to fix it, but actually he’s quite happy living the celebrity lifestyle and having FWBs that adore him but never ask for too much. I knew to walk away but some women only see the potential, not that he’d have to want to and work to fix himself on a deeper level than they even understand.
You have to know your limitations and what you will accept. But you also have to look at a man as he is, right now. Not at what could possibly be.May 26, 2017 at 1:28 pm #629608
Sorry L, Ellen is right on the mark about you. Most of your comments are just snippy and for your own amusement and it is not often you are right or useful. You must not have a job or a life for as often as you are here. It stopped being cute or funny a long long time ago.May 26, 2017 at 1:56 pm #629611
I have to defend L (not that she needs to be:) )
but she usually says with 1-2 sentences, what the others are saying in 5 paragraphs
anyways, its seems that Melody has already made up her mind about telling the guy about her feelings
so keep us updated, even if its good or bad
I can see how fighting for him MAY turn out to be a good thing, if you have a patience and a real strong love…
Melody, you doesnt sound desperate, so maybe a few months of love confessing and deep challenging conversations may result in something:) you never know
why this “having the talk” usually fails, because the woman is desperate or crazy or just plain naive, or dumb…. but if somebody is on a “mission”, and is confessing love from strenght and not from desperation, and confessing it consistently, it may work
if you are secure enough in yourself, do it
uf you dont beleive really, dont do it
but, even if your love mission will get results (as it may), it will not happen this weekend , at the first confession… it will take time and time and time…. so, are you up for it?
I repeat, dont expect anything to change after your first confession…May 26, 2017 at 2:19 pm #629618
A man who is truly IN LOVE with a woman emits a very special feeling that you’ve obviously never experienced. I’ve experienced it many times, so I KNOW what a man is like when he’s in love…its the OPPOSITE of what your experiencing. A man in love is like a giddy child, he wants to be around you all the time, he can’t stop thinking of you and the thought of you not being in his life would be too painful to even consider so they do everything in their power to make you happy!
Its really effortless, and if the woman ACCEPTS his love and devotion, you both will feel completely CALM, CONFIDENT, SECURE and SAFE in the relationship that will NATURALLY progress towards a full commitment (marriage) with the man leading the way. When you’ve experienced them you stay away from men like this because if you feel so compelled to FIX a broken man then your a co-dependent and that is the most dysfunctional type of relationship you can find yourself in, and the one your mother was in and are following her pattern because that’s what you were taught and know how to do.
You can’t fight against mother nature. The natural course of coupling is the man picking the woman (falling in love with her), and then the woman choosing the man (falling in love with him). When these dynamics are at play the relationship progresses easily, fluidly and organically. You are trying to fit a peg in a round hole based solely on how YOU FEEL and when you discount another person’s feelings thMay 26, 2017 at 2:21 pm #629619
Pandora why do you “have” to defend someone who is so callous? It doesn’t matter how short she says it, it’s very unkind at the expense of someone who genuinely seeks help here. And I very much disagree, she’s not right most of the time she’s just sarcastic. She used to just pop up here and there and it could be funny but now she’s here almost daily dumping on people. There used to be an admin here who showed up occasionally and now it seems there is no one watching ever.May 26, 2017 at 2:23 pm #629620
oops wasn’t finished
You are trying to force a square peg in a round hole based solely on how YOU FEEL and when you discount another person’s feelings, his ability to DECIDE whether he wants to be in love or not, and especially WHO he wants to do that with. There are good and bad bets…this is a very bad bet.May 26, 2017 at 3:08 pm #629630
Maria gave good advice. Ask him where he stands and then decide what to do based on his answer. If it works out, great. If not, at least you tried. Nothing worse than wondering what if because you were too scared to just ask!May 26, 2017 at 3:15 pm #629631
Lane’s strategy got her into a long marriage with a chronic alcoholic.