Two super amazing dates regarding the third please help


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This topic contains 34 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Eric Charles 1 month ago.

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  • #933192 Reply

    Avivit

    Dear Eric and Sabrina
    A week ago I went on a date with a stunning guy. Our connection was the kind of rare instant connection – the conversation was really fun and engaging and the sex felt great – there was a wonderful physical match (sex on a first date – not something I usually do) and I thought wow! but he was even more excited than me and after the second date, he said it was so amazing it happened to us and kept complimenting me on how fascinating and fun and sexy I am which felt like honest compliments. But on the third date, something happened. His vibe was different I thought maybe he was a little tired or upset (told something about the frustration from assignments with the kids his ex-wife imposed on him). We made love and it was stunning for me – but I did not climax as it sometimes happens to me at first when I do not feel completely safe to be completely let go (we knew each other less than a week) but I was the closest to cum ever with a guy I just met. Unfortunately from previous experiences, it has often happened that guys got mad at me for not climaxing, as if I hurt their ego and then I got into the pressure I had to cum to make them happy, and then it’s such a vicious circle. Anyway, with him, I was closest and also told him that to cum I need a feel bit more confidence and familiarity.
    The sex lasted quite a long time and I had just amazing I also told him that but I saw that I would not get to the climax soon so I told him he just would not wait for me anymore and would finish. But then he started saying something like “I want you to reach orgasm today and then you suck my dick to the end” – his tone was suddenly different and I felt a bit uncomfortable, so I told him not to wait for me and reach orgasm and he cummed twice.
    We took a break and he looked upset again. Then we went back to bed and he talked again about wanting me to cum I was ok with going to sleep but he insisted so I licked him to stand up and then he pushed my head hard and it felt uncomfortable, he also said something like: “Here’s what all the guys did to you” I told him enough and that I did not like it and also that it did not happen to me with guys before. I tried to understand why he did it – meaning I took it personally (in retrospect I did not understand that maybe that stimulates him and is important to him) and got out of bed.
    The atmosphere was unpleasant and I did not know what to do we dozed off a bit and then we got up and he said we were not suitable and came up with three reasons why we are not suitable.
    It was really weird for me, I felt it was not personal and I was not offended. But I did not understand why he suddenly gave up on me. We said goodbye beautifully in the morning.
    The next day, I immediately jumped on the net to understand what happened, found your site, and bought all the books, including all the bonuses and the rest. I had to understand what happened because we had a really good time together both intellectually and sexually. – It seems to me like a mystery.
    Then I read yesterday that guys do not share what stimulates them in bed. And we did not talk to each other about what stimulated us we just jumped into bed.
    So it’s true that it does not do it for me – suck his cockv while he pushes my head down. But if we talked and decided on a role-play of a prostitute and a client, I would be happy and even enjoy it.
    And yet this is just my guess.
    When I drove home he rang and said he would be happy with us keeping in touch and leaving the door open.
    I would not want to contact him myself. But I thought if he would contact me then maybe I should write to him about it or talk to him about it or what would you suggest?
    He’s an exciting guy and I want something to start between us but I’m not sure about my interpretation of the whole situation.
    Is there any way to get him back to me? There was a moment I thought maybe write to him and send a sexy picture but I do not want to woo him, I never do that.
    There was some logic to the three reasons he brought up – he said I was a bit of a hippie and he was more of a mainstream but it sounded like an excuse, he was embarrassed maybe, he might have expected me to be more experienced. On the other hand maybe what he needs is a BDSM girl , and it’s not me.
    Please help.
    THANKS!

    #933196 Reply

    Anna

    start what with him? you weren’t comfortable with what he was doing , that to me looks like you were almost raped? he doesn’t respect your boundaries and each time you met you had sex , what do you want to start? I don’t understand

    #933197 Reply

    Liz Lemon

    I’m going to be blunt because I can’t think of any other way to say this. You are completely going about this a$$ backwards. This man sees you for sex, that’s it. You are not on the path to a relationship with this guy.

    You can’t sex a guy into a relationship! Men fall in love outside the bedroom.

    Eric just wrote a really brilliant response about this in the thread “How To Know Someone is Using You”– I hope he summarizes the same thing here. Men will gladly take sex if you offer it. It does not mean they feel anything for you or see you as romantic potential. You need to establish an emotional bond with a man before jumping into bed with him, if you want to have a relationship with him.

    You wrote “he would be happy with us keeping in touch and leaving the door open”– yah, leaving the door open for more sex. “Keeping in touch” to hook up once in awhile. That’s it. “he said we were not suitable and came up with three reasons why we are not suitable”– he has told you point blank he doesn’t see you as relationship material!
    “I want something to start between us”– that ship has already sailed, sorry. This guy does not see you as relationship material. Again, I apologize for my bluntness but really this whole post had me shaking my head in disbelief.

    #933198 Reply

    Eric Charles
    Keymaster

    OK so for a guy, sex is just sex.

    And a first date where you end up having sex isn’t “an amazing connection” for him… it’s just the track to sex.

    Now I’m not saying that from a moral standpoint, like I’m telling you that a woman shouldn’t or can’t have sex on a first date.

    Some of the strongest, most loving married couples I know started with sex on the first date. So that in itself isn’t a problem and I’m not shaming it.

    BUT…

    To a guy, sex is just sex. If you offer sex, a guy will take it.

    If you offer ongoing sex, a guy will take it for as long as he’s enjoying it.

    It has nothing to do with love, commitment or connection for a guy.

    So really this is about sex.

    YOU might feel a strong connection to him. YOU might think he’s stunning. YOU might have strong feelings for him and want to be together.

    And it’s natural to think that if you feel this strongly, he must be feeling something…

    Nope, not necessarily.

    A man’s “love button” has nothing to do with sex.

    It has to do with his life and how you help him navigate his own emotional world to access and bring out his best.

    It doesn’t sound like you really know much about this guy.

    By that I mean, I don’t have the impression you know who he is in the world. What are his genuine fears, failures, frustrations? What are his true wishes, values, dreams? What moves him emotionally? What makes him feel like a winner? What makes him feel like a loser? What makes him feel secure/insecure?

    As you get to know a man over time, you come to know those answers. They aren’t revealed directly, since a man isn’t going to reveal his vulnerabilities directly, ever.

    But if you understand those are what’s truly important to know about a man, you’ll pay attention and observe. You won’t be dazzled and hypnotized by his charming “mask”, where he seduces you into thinking you’re perfect together.

    When you shared that story about him listing 3 reasons you’re not compatible, that sounded like he’s using some kind of manipulation tactic on you.

    Like in the beginning you’re just bombed with feelings of connection and excitement, where it feels so right to have sex immediately.

    Then as you have more sex, he pushes the boundaries with you in various ways. When you don’t give him the response he wants or push back, he “punishes” you by taking away the perceived relationship potential.

    Then you feel like you’re losing him and start franctically chasing him, trying anything to win him back and please him.

    Then maybe he’ll act like you’ve won him over. Now, you’re so afraid of losing him you’ll comply with anything he acts, even if it’s things you normally wouldn’t be OK with.

    OK?

    See… women aren’t built the same when it comes to sex.

    Sex, especially ongoing sex with the same man, triggers thousands of years of evolution to bond with the man that could potentially get you pregnant.

    So your hormones, brain chemistry, psychology, etc. begins making you feel like you’re falling deeply in love.

    None of this is happening for the guy. None of it.

    So if you’re having ongoing sex with a guy, you’re being drenched in love chemicals that will take every ounce of willpower to push against in order to see clearly.

    Meanwhile, you have no insight into him. If you don’t know him or his inner world, you have no power to push any of his “love buttons”.

    So he has you chasing him and you have nothing on your side he really values.

    He can get sex from any woman (even if he has to pay for it).

    And if the draw for him is having power and control over you, well… that’s not a good position to be in.

    At best it might be a turn on, but it will be increasingly difficult to put it on any kind of track towards a relationship.

    I’m not saying you can’t keep things going with this guy. But know that it will be what I described: A dynamic where his interest is to push you as far as he can into doing things you aren’t comfortable with, then leaving once he’s bored with you.

    If you’re OK with that (and I’m not judging you if you want to pursue that), then go ahead and just don’t have the expectation of it having any relationship potential or that it has anything to do with that.

    #933200 Reply

    Avivit

    Hi guys, I do not speak English so sorry for the mistakes. I’m from the Middle East. And so just to add:
    I forgot to tell you that he courted me after quite a while and was excited about the third date and wrote me text messages as expected, and more. That’s why I was so surprised. In retrospect maybe it’s because, before the third meeting I told him that my divorcee sleeps in my house every time he comes to meet our daughter, he comes from a distance once a week. Maybe I seemed like a hippie to him. I am a poet and I have a small publishing house. And he is a business consultant. We had so much fun, what a shame!

    #933201 Reply

    Eric Charles
    Keymaster

    Your English is good.

    Thank you for the additional details. The details paint some more of a picture, but I think the answers you received so far are good answers regardless of these details, since they aim at the root of what’s happening here.

    Did you read the all of the responses you received so far?

    Did you have questions about any of it?

    Did any of it give you any insights or realizations?

    #933202 Reply

    Avivit

    Wow, Eric, thank you so much for your response!

    Thanks for the explanation about the manipulation – because I did not understand where it came from.
    This is certainly not my man. Thanks!

    In a sense, I’m not sorry I slept with him on the first date because it accelerated the acquaintance or the matching test between us. If he is a manipulator then if a relationship had developed I would have suffered way more.

    So how in some cases do you think it happens that a relationship of love and friendship develops after sex on a first date?

    #933205 Reply

    Avivit

    Okay, just now I saw all the responses. Thanks! Yes, I knew the things I wrote might embarrass me. I understand why it made you so dizzy. I do not know why I am so naive. And I’m not a child either.
    I was sexually abused in my childhood maybe it disrupted my judgment in situations where I am being manipulated.

    In the last year, I have not dated at all. Precisely because of such situations. That was not a good situation to be in either – avoidance.

    I get a lot of Facebook posts from guys and to this day I have never responded. Somehow when he wrote I decided to respond – and it took quite a while until I left the house, intuitively I felt something was not OK.
    But on the other hand, it was probably time for me to get out of this state of seclusion.
    Men always wanted to have sex with me and I never had a significant relationship. However, I have good friends and guys like brothers. I love men. Therefore I know a man like that exists.
    I will read all the reading material I bought from you believe me. And knowledge can certainly help, I have also been helped by a psychologist but the fact is I fall into such situations.
    But maybe it’s not something you can learn from a book, maybe it’s not something I just have. Such natural emotional intelligence to enter into a bond of love.
    I am in tears I will stop here.
    You guys are wonderful thank you!

    #933210 Reply

    Tallspicy

    It is possible, but not probable to start a relationship after first date sex. The only way that happens is that he really likes you and you put no pressure on him at all that the sex had any meaning. I look at it this way, it is better to not have sex early because you always know they like you or at least growing their interest through investment if you are not having sex. And when I wait I make sure I like him too and my hormones are not in charge.

    You cannot sex a man into a real relationship. Ever.

    #933211 Reply

    Eric Charles
    Keymaster

    I am glad you wrote what you wrote. There’s nothing embarrassing about it.

    Creating a loving relationship is something you can do, but we need to unlearn a lot of the ideas society teaches as normal in today’s world.

    And that’s not just you, that’s everyone.

    If we want a loving relationship in our lives, we need to learn how to make that happen. We need to learn what works as well as the mistakes to avoid.

    When you’ve recently had a struggle or upset, it can feel overwhelming to learn.

    But a lot of your success will come down to choices you make at the beginning of the relationship:

    – Starting from a place where your life is fulfilling and happy
    – Aiming to create an emotional connection with the guy
    – Selecting a man who isn’t willfully closed off from exposing some vulnerability and revealing his real life

    Creating an emotional connection happens gradually. Flirting has its place, but emotional connection isn’t created by flirting conversations.

    Emotional connection begins as you transition past the flirting phase (where you are both clear you’re attracted to each other) and you’re learning about the actual person on deeper and deeper levels.

    Playful curiosity can get you very far in creating an emotional connection with men. The truth is, most men want to be understood, they want to be known, they want to feel accepted, they want to feel they can express themselves without needing to soften or mask what’s true for them in that moment.

    Focus on bringing your conversations with a man to discovering who he really is behind the mask.

    Be easy and loving to yourself. You will be OK.

    You can be excited about your future from here. You will focus on bringing emotional connection into your interactions and it will take you to new places.

    #933680 Reply

    Avivit

    Dear Eric,

    Thanks for the response and encouragement. I’m excited.
    And also have a question about what I wrote earlier.
    So I did not wait to obsess over the guy and went into the dating app and it’s really fun and exciting, I’ll probably consult you further down the road. In the meantime reading the excellent materials I have purchased.
    Anyway, I kept checking on Google what exactly I was experiencing. And I discovered that it’s called love-bombing and that it’s usually a characteristic of a narcissistic personality disorder.
    And yet I am still trying to understand something, was there still something in my conduct that led to such a reaction on his part, if there are ways to make him love you then maybe there are also mistakes that might cause him to treat you rudely? It’s true that not every guy and that it depends on education and personality. Yet.
    Second, I read that if a narcissist, (assuming this is the case, even though he shares about childhood and his relationship with his parents and siblings that quite reinforces such an assumption) gets feedback on his behavior (praise for good behavior say) then his chances of recovery increase.
    Today I was suddenly inspired to write to him. And honestly, it’s not to win him back, but out of the brotherhood, I want to elevate him – I feel it raises the chance that he will be nicer to the next girls. I came out with a very positive experience overall I enjoyed his Love Bobbing and the rest I did not take too personally. So what do you think about such an SMS? Maybe it’s unnecessary at all, but here’s what I wish to write:

    Hey honey,
    What’s new?
    I deleted your number from my cell phone because I did not want to be tempted to call
    But I was inspired today and I want to lift you and say you are stunning and unique
    And that you deserve love with the most beautiful woman in town and am sure that it will happen to you.
    I do not apologize for calling you bimbo, Because it was bad and sucks. (in a phone call after the last meeting I told him it was inappropriate and asked why he behaved like that, is he a bimbo?)
    In a conversation with friends today I heard that if a girl drinks your semen it is an act of love.
    Well, the first time I hear of that and Love is from another scenario, isn’t it?
    Anycase it seems to me that it can work better with asking her, maybe she will want to make you pleasure? Maybe she would like to play with you hooker and client? A waitress and a drunk? worth trying.
    In general, think you’re a gold not yet fully discovered.

    Love … best

    So Eric,
    It may be completely unnecessary? and I may be acting out of ignorance of my motivations – so here I consult you. To me it feels good to send such an SMS (on messenger I do not have his number anymore), I like to elevate him, especially if in the end the communication with him so elevated me up too. (Even if perhaps he did so out of manipulative intent)

    Super thanks
    Great weekend
    Avivit

    #933684 Reply

    Raven

    Do. Not. Send. Him. Anything.

    Remove him from your phone & move on!

    #933685 Reply

    Tallspicy

    Please look up insecure attachment. You are overly invested in this man, who you literally have nothing with. On top of that you are diagnosing a man you met 3 times. He is not a narcissist and did not love bomb you by treating you nicely on dates, he did nothing actually wrong (he actually ended it instead of disappearing) and he did not use you because you offered it up. I am sorry if that is harsh. You had sex with him, you are currently obsessed with him…. You need to focus on you. Not him.

    Why are you having sex on a first date? Why are you so attached to a man you barely know? Why are you reaching out to men who broke up with you for any reason? Why are you caring why a man who supposedly used you is no longer interested? These are all you questions.

    #933709 Reply

    Avivit

    Thank you for both answers.
    It’s not Harsh I’m here to study.
    No, diagnose I tried to understand what has happened and this is what came up on Google, sure I doubted these assumptions – that’s why I’m here.
    And yes these are good questions, it’s also my style of attachment that is problematic (maybe ambivalence style?) but then do you think this is something that can be resolved while going on dates? awareness is enough?

    I’m in a really good place in my life and have no regrets about anything. It seems that I slept with him on a first date also because I did not give it much chance – it was a lot of fun but intuitively I felt it was not my match, even though there is always such hope. Will not text him. Really appreciate your response. Thanks!

    #933711 Reply

    Eric Charles
    Keymaster

    I’m reluctant to ascribe “attachment styles” to the situation here.

    If a woman sleeps with a guy, her system will flod with bonding hormones and will manifest as deeply craving a bond and connection with the man.

    It won’t all happen as one explosive lightning bolt moment of “love”.

    It will be a cascade of emotions, feelings and thoughts that take place over hours, days and weeks.

    Some of the feelings will be negative feelings of fear (and chemical withdrawal). Regardless of whether they’re positive, negative, strong or subtle, all of these feelings point towards chasing love, commitment and connection with the man.

    Some of the thoughts will trigger other thoughts and ideas, and sometimes, hook into personal tendencies of obsession, fear or hostility.

    But the trigger that kicks it all off is the sex.

    In light of this, I look at the sex as the most important factor to consider.

    There’s a popular fad to assign psychological diagnoses to relationship problems, while ignoring the elephant in the room: Casual sex.

    If a woman has sex, it’s expected she will deeply crave bonding and connection with the man to the same extent a heroine addict craves heroine.

    It will be so all-consuming that the rest of life will seem dull and pointless compared to the dramatic craving these bonding chemicals trigger.

    A woman could go down a rabbit hole for years learning about “attachment styles” and “narcissists” and “sociopaths”, growing ever-more rigid and self-conscious about just how “wrong” or “broken” or “traumatized” she is according to these perspectives.

    And look, all these psychological theories and viewpoints have their place. I’m not diminishing them.

    I’m saying sex is tremendously powerful. It’s always possible other factors are activated downstream, but the sex is the trigger & root of the issue, so that’s really the place to reflect.

    #933713 Reply

    Avivit

    Sounds sober and smart, and surely encouraging. am really thankful.

    #933718 Reply

    Mary

    I hope you made a good decision to never contact him (even blocking him) and just grow from all of the good advice on this thread, especially given the time and energy of such advice.

    #933741 Reply

    Tallspicy

    Eric,

    I will split the difference with you. Sex + insecure attachment lead to this woman being obsessed. The hormones are not helping her inclination to keep engaging to get him to respond, stay in contact or beat herself up past what is helpful. Those are all attachment style issues exacerbated by casual sex. Willingness to have casual sex in itself may also be part of anxious attachment as a way to hold on.

    #933742 Reply

    Ewa

    I agree with Tallspicy, but I also need to add that knowledge is power and knowing that sex releases all those hormones and makes us attached can help! Because then as a woman you know that you crave his attention/company not because he is so great but because you are biologically programmed to!

    #933755 Reply

    Eric Charles
    Keymaster

    Tallspicy & Ewa – Yes agreed.

    My main goal is to simplify relationship issues so women can get past it and move on as quickly as possible.

    I don’t have a problem with anyone learning about attachment styles or narcissists or any of that psychology stuff, but it shouldn’t be done when they’re trying to solve their relationship problems.

    Why? Because it can take a person down an endless rabbit hole, where they spend years learning psychology concepts to “fix themselves” and “understand human behavior”.

    It can also undermine their ability to trust themselves, thereby making them fearful to date again (or doubt their every move within the relationship). The vast majority of women are quite clearheaded and resourceful as long as they’re not in a fearful, upset state of mind. If they look at life through a lens that has them doubt themselves, that can imbue their life with fear at the moments where they need clarity the most.

    I ask myself, “What is the root of the problem here?” And it’s casual sex.

    But if every show, movie and song is singing about casual sex, people won’t think it could possibly be a problem.

    Then, if relationship coaches start talking about “narcissists” and “attachment styles”, it reinforces a reality that those things are the root of the problem, not the casual sex. Then their audience goes on a never-ending quest to fix themselves and understand themselves before they allow themselves to date again.

    Or they keep dating, keep having casual sex, but then have more complex reasons for why it fell apart this time.

    I say this with respect to you and I’m not saying what you’re saying isn’t right or doesn’t have value. It does and it’s a perfectly fine thing to explore if you’re already living a happy life and your love life is how you want it.

    It’s when someone’s love life is postponed in order to “fix themselves” and “understand themselves” where it can be a problem. I want to help women get to the finish line as quickly as possible, so this need for relationship advice is done and over with for them, so they can move forward with life.

    Part of that, also, is having an idea of what “good” looks like in their love life. I don’t want to give women more things to be afraid of or feel like they’re falling short of. I want to give them a roadmap of what works and what doesn’t, almost making the most emotional aspects impersonal, so they’re better able to evaluate the relationship rationally.

    Casual sex needs to be examined through the lens of being a root problem before any other personal/psychology analysis, that’s what I’m saying.

    Again, I say all this with love and respect for you and your recommendation. It’s not wrong necessarily, and bringing it up in discussion gives me a chance to refine my message and brand, which is valuable to my work. So that’s why I’m walking through my logic here. Hopefully it comes off well to you, I say it all with appreciation for you and all the good you do here in the forum.

    #933772 Reply

    M

    “…. almost making the most emotional aspects impersonal, so they’re better able to evaluate the relationship rationally.”

    This sentence really struck me. I’ve just realised this is where I’ve been going wrong.

    When I don’t like a guy, I can have such a great laugh with him and develop a brilliant friendship with him. I’m in total control, and usually it leads to attraction developing on his side if I continue with the special attention without clarifying the platonic nature of my interest.

    But the minute I start to “catch feelings” I’m done for. I lose the ability to behave like a normal rational being. Because one potential wrong move on my part, and I risk rejection of my truest heart and all of who I am at my core. Because that’s what I’m offering up, Me, …. I guess unconsciously my subtext is at once whispering and screaming…. ”here I am, have all of me in your life….(please)… “

    Then when the inevitable happens the unconscious script changes because in my head, he was mine and I was already his, “What do you mean you don’t like me??!!! Oh god, what is WRONG WITH ME?!!!!!! ……. Ahhhhh this always happens… it must be ME!…. sob sob sob … there’s no hope….” blah de blah de blah…

    Going from all-in to all-out, all of a sudden, is too much for my system to handle and invariably leads to breakdown on my part. Suddenly, I’ve lost him, my future life, and anything cool about myself I let myself believe, all in one foul swoop.

    System. Breakdown.

    Except. What I failed to notice was that he almost never loses interest all of a sudden. The signs are always there gradually evident, I just didn’t see them because (as Eric pointed out to me) I was in my head living in a distorted (prettier) version of what was happening instead of noticing actual reality as it happens.

    Everybody else could see it because they weren’t in a trance like me. (Except for my lovable but foolish girlfriends who live in their own painful trances.)

    I think guys, like the cavemen they are in their biological essence, totally have the advantage over us in this initial stage in some ways. They totally keep their head and don’t let their heart rule, because nature has given them the ability to separate the ability to be physically intimate with the object of their attention, without becoming bonded to her. In fact without putting ourselves down, that’s almost what we are, the object of their attention, someone who’s affection and favours they want to, and need, to win.

    The only problem for us is, once they win us – because they’re not emotionally invested in us yet – whether they want to keep us or not, is a different matter altogether. If another exciting or more alluring challenge appears on the horizon, there’s nothing holding them back from going out on the next hunt.

    Leaving us alone holding the baby (only metaphorically one hopes.)

    The key has got to be what stops us getting emotionally invested too early, so we can match their attitude until the deal is sealed. Quoting directly from what I’ve learnt from Eric (and the other ladies here):

    – You’re 100% single until you’re 100% not
    (God I love this rule so much! Knowing it solves so much!)

    – Casual sex makes a woman biologically and emotionally committed / bonded regardless of where the man is at. If he’s not emotionally invested and bonded yet, she should get ready to potentially cry into her pillow and nurse her broken heart until how ever long it takes to heal.

    (- I feel like there was a 3rd brilliant thing Eric pointed out, but I can’t remember what it was as now… anyone remember what it was???)

    When dating happens, whilst he’s working towards getting physically intimate a woman, he’s also simultaneously assessing her character and personality, and for life fit ie how well she’ll fit into his life and be able to integrate into his life agenda.

    This is smart. He’s rational and getting his needs meet at the same time. He’s thinking Now, and the Reality of what the Future might look like. He takes his time, he instinctively knows his whole future life depends on it. No matter how he seems to behave and all the lovey dovey gestures he makes, until he expressly and explicitly states he’s committed, he’s free to potentially walk out the door at any moment if things start going south for him.

    But for us though, once we get physically intimate (read as sex for most, but even less that that if your line is earlier) rationality is totally overwhelmed by Feeling. Because we’re All Heart right. That’s normally the beauty of us and why would we want to be any other way?

    Outside of a committed relationship, being all heart does not serve us. Not seeing the real truth of what is in front of us, this is our enemy. We HAVE to keep our heads. We have to stay mentally clear and rational. Sex robs us of this ability.

    Only inside a committed relationship can we afford to be all heart, because he’s bringing his heart to us too now.

    And then we’re totally in our element and have the advantage! Because we’re the Queens of Heart right?! Emotions are our thing and we can lead him and his heart beautifully once we’re in it together for our mutual highest good.

    So. That’s what I’ve learnt so far.

    Oh, and that the key to winning his heart, lies in our ability to:

    (1) protect our own hearts whilst simultaneously being kind, generous and loving (because then he knows he’s potentially got a smart and strong woman in his corner);

    (2) inspire him to bring out his best in the game of life. To do this we need to get curious and discover what drives him, what his dreams, hopes, fears, motivations etc are (Be the wind beneath his wings to quote the song.)

    (3) be independently happy and successful in our own lives (so he knows we’re not going to be a drain on him).

    You know what. I totally get guys for thinking like this. I’m a single mum with young twins and this is exactly how I think now.

    If I’ve missed anything, please update me! I’m keen to learn!

    #933773 Reply

    M

    From Eric’s post:
    “ If a woman sleeps with a guy, her system will flood with bonding hormones and will manifest as deeply craving a bond and connection with the man.

    It won’t all happen as one explosive lightning bolt moment of “love”.

    It will be a cascade of emotions, feelings and thoughts that take place over hours, days and weeks.

    Some of the feelings will be negative feelings of fear (and chemical withdrawal). Regardless of whether they’re positive, negative, strong or subtle, all of these feelings point towards chasing love, commitment and connection with the man.

    Some of the thoughts will trigger other thoughts and ideas, and sometimes, hook into personal tendencies of obsession, fear or hostility.”

    And:

    “ If a woman has sex, it’s expected she will deeply crave bonding and connection with the man to the same extent a heroine addict craves heroine.

    It will be so all-consuming that the rest of life will seem dull and pointless compared to the dramatic craving these bonding chemicals trigger.”

    Thank you SO much for explaining this Eric!!!

    Like some of the other posters here, I make a point to read all your posts, and usually at least twice. As I went back and re-re-read your earlier posts, I’m blown away again. You understand women so well and it is so accurate what you’re describing.

    Reading everything you’ve written makes so much sense when I look back at my own past experiences.

    Thank you so much for sharing and explaining this in such a precise and detailed way. I’d read about the neurochemicals released and that love hormones triggered the same areas as heroin does, so I understood on some level what was happening to me, but I still didn’t understand why or how I got myself to that place in the first place.

    I was so mad with myself and angry and annoyed before and thought I was pathetic because I seemed to have no hold on what was happening to me emotionally, even though intellectually I knew better. (Thankfully I can see clearly now, but I’ll share feedback about that properly later at some point.)

    Knowing that I’m not the problem (and although my attachment style could be healthier), it was because I engaged in a behaviour that was pre-programmed to have me crave him at all costs, is so enlightening and relieving and strengthening. It puts the power back in my hands.

    Incidently, I come from a different generation and cultural background than todays western young ladies, so the trigger for me comes a lot earlier than sex even. This might sound really dumb and unbelievable, but I had a very sheltered upbringing and I was taught that even flirting is very wrong. In the time when I was growing up, if you were ever publically caught in any kind of close relationship with a guy, it would be humiliating for your parents, and to avoid the shame you would either have to break it off completely and very publically or they would arrange your marriage to him.

    I now realise that the minute I make a conscious decision to flirt openly with a guy, I’m done for! How awkward is that!!! I always suspected that for me, there was no such thing as innocent flirting. Now I know that this is true and I understand why!

    The last guy there is was a pigsty interaction with, finally high-fived me after months of trash, and it unleashed a dam of withheld emotion that shredded and destroyed every last morsel of self-dignity I had left. I imagine anyone reading this might be laughing their heads off because everyone else is talking about sex here, and I’m still stuck in a Jane Austen novel!!! (Albeit an Indian version!)

    Still at least I know why the insanity now. It’s not me, just the pre-set programming. I can work around that. Knowledge is potential power, acting wisely on that knowledge is true power (ad libbing my hero Tony Robbins!).

    Wow, thank you so much for these really brilliant insights Eric. I am beyond grateful!

    I leave you with one of my favourite quotes.

    “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
    Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

    Sometimes love and war are not all that different…

    #933774 Reply

    Eric Charles
    Keymaster

    M – I appreciated every word of your response. Thank you for it, I’m glad you found it helpful and your detailed feedback is always appreciated!

    I want to touch on what you described here:

    “Incidently, I come from a different generation and cultural background than todays western young ladies, so the trigger for me comes a lot earlier than sex even.”

    I do think you are speaking to something at the root of what you’re struggling with, but the chemical triggers I’m talking about are specific to sex (and moreso to orgasm).

    I want to be precise that you are on-target for something to address, but it’s not the same thing as sex.

    Let’s speak to it a bit though.

    You are a woman who wants a great relationship. So that requires that you will interact with men, go on dates, etc.

    That means that the thing you want is at odds with things you have a negative perspective about, or at least, had one in the past.

    Now, that’s not to say you haven’t adjusted and overcome these perspectives to a degree, but I imagine it takes some amount of energy on your part to interact with men because of this.

    So, when you do something that would be at-odds with your original cultural programming, you’re going to be using energy. In the context of your programming, you’ll be swimming upstream against it.

    When a person puts energy towards someone or something, they’re investing themselves in it.

    The more they invest, the more they want a payoff for their sacrifice… and that puts pressure on the woman and the relationship.

    It starts to become more about getting the payoff.

    You want to find a style of dating where you aren’t swimming upstream against your programming or your nature as much as possible.

    That’s not to say there might be a few things about yourself/your programming you’d want to adjust, but it’s much better if it’s 3 things instead of 300… the way to achieve that is to eliminate as many areas as we can where we’re swimming upstream against our own nature.

    You were writing along these lines in your response, so it sounds like you’re already thinking along these lines too.

    A lot of women will make the mistake of thinking a relationship is just about getting an official commitment from the guy or marriage or whatever.

    Truth is, relationships happen in the moment. If your relationship approach has you swimming upstream, that doesn’t stop at some point down the line in a relationship. So we need to recognize what goes against our nature and what is “swimming upstream” for us. Then choose relationships where we’re swimming downstream, with our nature and harmonizing with their nature (for the most part).

    When it’s 95% swimming downstream, we have so much appreciation for the other person that we’re glad to give the 5% “effort” when there’s bumps in the road.

    But when it’s 95% swimming upstream for us and the other person is detached and checked out, sooner or later, that dynamic falls apart.

    So what you’re describing in your response speaks more to that.

    #933775 Reply

    M

    Yes yes yes! This is it precisely! Thank you so much for explaining, clarifying and expanding. This makes perfect perfect sense.

    Man, it’s like you’ve got laser-vision into these dynamics Eric! Thank you for your insight and generosity. 🙏😊

    #933777 Reply

    Eric Charles
    Keymaster

    Thank you M.

    Honestly, my secret is simple: I aim at the root of problems in a culture obsessed with discussing the downstream effects of problems while missing the root.

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