Home › Forums › Dating and Sex Advice › Two super amazing dates regarding the third please help
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Eric Charles.
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M
😀 Aha! As I said, Genius! ✨🌟✨
I am now adopting this as my mantra. I’m going to put it up on my wall! In fact I just asked myself this question on an unrelated issue, and the answer shifted everything! Wow! 😮✨✨✨✨✨
This is brilliant! It’s such a powerful perspective and question to ask. Wow. Thank you (again!!!) 🙏🙏🙏🙏
It’s such a simple and obvious question too, why did I never think of this before?! Eric, you totally totally rock!!!! 😃✨🌟✨
Avivit
Dear Eric
On the other hand, I am listening to Love Formula Week 12 and you are saying something different here. Please explain. The answer I gave earlier was a half guess. It was not casual sex. We arranged to meet at an Irish bar in his area, (lives in a nearby town) but the bar only opened when I arrived so we continued in his car to a cafe restaurant. The conversation was great, both in content and pace, it was not at all an empty flirtation. Then he suggested we go for a drink. I agreed because I thought we were going back to the Irish bar for another drink. But then on the way, he apologized that his house was not the tidiest. I told him I thought we were going to the bar but I decided to go stream because I read in some dating book that if you can see his house it will give you another aspect. And I thought it was not a bad idea and I even told him that. But then we continued to drink alcohol and it was very fascinating, in some ways it was the most intimate date. We laughed a lot but the conversation was very personal, about the family and the home that each of us came from. He was completely fascinated by me he never stopped complimenting me and in the sex that was great he kissed my whole face, it felt like making love. Also on the second date it was exciting, we met at the Irish bar, and then we went to him, he was disappointed I did not cum but I told him that trust is the sexiest in my eyes and that is why I do not cum. On the phone in the days after the second date, he said he felt it was going to relationship (it kinda amused me, it felt very intense to me) and yet there was a feeling of something cosmic like this, I have never had such a fast and intense connection, And such a super fun one too. though my initial impression of his Facebook page (he started with me on Facebook) did not leave me completely – pastoral pictures of him and his children, information about the workplace, and that is it. Intuitively it felt to me like he was hiding something, I did not buy these pastoral pictures. He’s a good-looking guy and looks pretty likable. He suggested we go to a restaurant for the third date – one expensive and I said that a neighborhood pizza would be good too. But when I got to him on the third date (this time I got to his house first) he said nothing about the restaurant, he looked tired and upset so I decided not to bring it up, I thought maybe we should just have sex and then go to the restaurant. Of course, I felt a little weird but I was at the high of the previous dates. And then of course this was the date I wrote to you about. I do not understand what happened there. He told me about his previous relationship. I can not understand what exactly happened, why he suddenly turned over – and it also seems to have happened to him even before I got to his house.
I would love to hear your hypothesis.
As for sex on a first date, even if I’m a girl who is getting attached while having sex, that is indeed me. I still would not want to set strict rules for myself. I can develop awareness and resilience.
Must say this experience had a very positive effect on me, I stayed high a week later, I had integrative dreams the night after, I searched and found this wonderful forum, and more. ..
Anyway, this Friday I’m going on a pretty promising date, wish me luck.
Thanks for everything!
Tallspicy
Sorry to be harsh, but let the back tracking begin. Denying that sex on the first date could be construed as casual, deep over analysis, insistence that you can have casual sex.
Any sex on the first date is casual and should be seen as such until time and consistency show it was not. You only went out with him 2ce. You did not know him and he did not turn over…. He was most likely in no way actually attached to begin with because again that takes time and consistency. And when a man says it is a relationship on the 2nd date or before, that is a red flag.
We will never be able to tell you what happened or why. We can tell you to not sleep with someone if this is what happens to you emotionally. You are in no way suited to sex on the first date.
And… what men say means nothing. Only what happens after the date and if they try to see you again. Until you learn to pay attention to words plus actions over a period of time, you will be stuck in this hole.
I suggest you work on yourself before you date more because this is very intense energy and I wonder if you leak that onto the men you date.
M
Avivit, you have to get to know them before you allow any physical intimacy, otherwise you will just get used for sex and treated poorly. Look back on all your relationships and see the pattern. I’m guessing either the guys don’t hang around after they’ve got bored of the sex, or the treat you unpleasantly.
The intimacy and intensity that you felt during the first two dates, was only sexual and the lead up to the sexual conquest. He wanted you to feel that so you would be sexual with him. That was the only reason he was so sweet and kind and intimate with you – he wanted sex, he didn’t want you as the real whole person you are. You deserve so much more than this. You deserve to be loved and your wishes and feelings to be respected and cared about.
This guy was dishonest to you on the first date – you thought you were going for another drink, but he took you to his house instead so you would sleep with him. Honey, don’t even get into a car alone with someone you’ve just met. He’s still really a stranger – it takes time to build up true intimacy and trust, the kind that have nothing to do with sex.
Read carefully what Tallspicy just said and the other posters have said. Make sure you read it carefully and you absorb this knowledge. Make sure you only think about discovering who a guy is first – this takes time.
I’d recommend working with a therapist or coach because your past had set you up with thinking and patterns of behaviour that are sabotaging the thing you really want – love.
You are worthy of being with full stop. Separate that from sex in your head. Separate it from sex in your behaviour.
You have a lot of work to do in yourself. Please take the time to do it. Once you do, everything will start slotting into place and you’ll find a relationship that is everything you want it to be with a man who thinks you are wonderful and treats you that way.
Eric CharlesKeymasterAvivit, can you clarify what is at odds with what I wrote to you here in this thread so far and Love Formula Week 12?
I read everything you wrote but I’m confused as to what you’re asking exactly. I need a clear question about what isn’t making sense.
I understand you’re asking why did he “turn over” like this but I thought my answers addressed it. You were very into him, but he wasn’t on the same page.
He needs to be “into you” in the way that really matters: Emotional connection.
Sexual connection isn’t going to lead to commitment. It will last as long as it’s novel and pleasurable.
Chemistry isn’t enough. Him depending on you isn’t enough.
There’s all sorts of dynamics women get themselves into that can go on for awhile and then end.
The only one that can lead to a lasting, committed, long term relationship is the one that builds deep emotional connection.
That didn’t happen here for him for whatever reason. Creating a deep emotional connection doesn’t happen all the time, even if you do everything “right”. And it doesn’t matter how much you like him or want him.
It even doesn’t matter if you thought your conversations were deep and amazing. Just because you were fascinated by his conversations doesn’t mean he felt fascinated by you on the other end.
Let’s say I’m a magician and I do a great magic trick. I pull a rabbit out of a hat and you’re amazed and fascinated. That’s you. That’s not me, the magician. I know how the trick works and I even know what to generally expect as a reaction on the other end. So my experience and the audience’s experience is not the same.
Let me know some questions you have and clarify what about anything I’ve said doesn’t make sense.
M
Love the magician analogy. Excellent.
What a great way to think about it.
Thanks Eric 🙏Avivit
As I wrote before, the attitude you bring is refreshing, sane, and encouraging. And that’s why I’m so glad I found this forum, your books, and everything you have to offer. What confused me here, is that on the one hand, you say that you have friends who slept on a first date and got married and by the way, I also have such friends. And on the other hand the recommendation to avoid it. True, I belong to the type of women who bond after sex and it is less recommended for me (although I also had experiences that contradict it) but in any case, it is also not my style of dating.
And secondly, if he is a magician (manipulator) if at all it was worth the effort in making an emotional connection, it seems to me that intuitively I felt not. And then I also ask myself so what is so bothering me? (I call it Amy Winehouse’s Back to Black Syndrome. Maybe because there’s a degree of self-destruction in being into guys like that)
Thank guys for the comments, for your patience with me the repeated rebukes and warnings of Tallspicy, and the explanations and sensitivity of M.
As for the equation that Tallspicy brings (guess you are a male) then maybe you should put the magician in the equation as well. Maybe the obsession is created because from the beginning it is clear that this man is inaccessible.When I asked myself why I was chatting here in this forum I realized that I was also trying to understand myself and my motives.
I saw all the red flags pretty well and there were also some yellow ones, I am not innocent and I did not fall victim. I did not want to go on this date, as I said I was working on a very demanding project – for more than a year, and it was a good excuse to avoid looking for a partner.
Already from his Facebook page, something felt unreliable to me so I also refused his offers to go on a date. But then a friend told me I was too judgmental and why not give this person a chance.
I conclude from this that I have a tendency to adventure, or that I just wanted to jump into the water, I wanted to break the state of avoidance I was in.
In fact, after the first date, I had already told him that I was not interested in meeting again and that I would rather keep this evening as a wonderful memory. But he insisted and we went on a second date.
True I was into him. He’s also the type of charmer man (Virgo) I have fallen in love with in the past (including my daughter’s father). Men who you can not be intimate with, always want to be in control and will not share with you their vulnerability. So maybe this is my way of avoiding intimacy.
And I did not just bring up astrology here, according to generic astrology I have no chance of finding love in this incarnation. I felt the same spirit in my psychologist that even though she encouraged me to go on dates she expressed great doubt – another reason why I left her.
But somehow after this date, something happened to me unexplainable and I feel I will not give up that I have nothing to lose even if I make more mistakes even if I come out stupid and obsessive – I want to find love and do not want to compromise, I want both a real deep loving connection and amazing sex.
I can, of course, just fall into despair, thinking I do not have this ability and that something is screwed up in me, as was more than once implied here in the comments, I understand why.
But on the other hand, I have very good friends mostly from the last twenty years and even one of them, a dear friend, is a guy I slept with on a first date (an entirely different case)
Not that it does not break your heart but to some extent, I also stopped taking life too personally not even myself. Maybe because I’m not so young. I’m a mom, I have one daughter, and I also believe my success will also be hers.
Thank you all it is really fun to have this forum.
M
“ I want to find love and do not want to compromise, I want both a real deep loving connection and amazing sex.”
Avivit, if this is truly what you want…..
…..I’m struggling to understand you. What we’re saying is that the screwed up part is the approach you’re using. It’s virtually guaranteed to give you the reverse of what you want.
I’ve heard Eric say what you mention about some of his friends, and I have a friend too that ended up marrying her fwb. But I think the point is that these are the exceptions rather than the rule.
Here are the contradictions in your own posts that I’m struggling with:
– you say you want love, without compromise, and both a real deep loving connection and amazing sex.
– everyone here has advised you that you’re using the wrong strategy to secure this;
– you like this forum and appear to value it in;
– yet you defend your wrong strategy anyway in more ways that one.Avivit, you can definitely have a real deep loving connection and amazing sex. But to secure both, you have to follow the order that you’ve listed it – form the real deep loving connection first, and only when the guy has it, move on to the amazing sex.
If you do it in the reverse order, you’re virtually guaranteed to lose both sooner or later (usually sooner).
I don’t know who your friend is, but I definitely would think about getting new wiser friends. Any person who causes you to overrides your own inner wisdom and intuition / instinct, is either not smart or not a friend.
Avivit, honey, if you persist in defending the wrong approach, and think heartbreak is an acceptable casualty along the way, there’s not much anyone else can do to help you.
I want to write something that can help you get what you want, but I’ve run out of ways to approach this.
I’m sending you love anyway as I don’t know how else to help you get what you want.🙏❤️😘
M
Okay I’ve reread your last post and can see that you do reflect deeply and maybe you were not defending your approach, just trying to understand your own behaviour. I apologise for jumping to conclusions.
I think I just struggled to understand your last post, it seems to me now that you were almost thinking aloud.
I’m wondering if you’re making this more complicated than it really is. I don’t think you were avoiding intimacy because your other posts show how much you crave it.
If you knew that by changing one thing – having one simple rule, you would increase your chances of building a long term relationship with the right guy for you, where you get deep emotional loving connection and amazing sex too, would you do it…?
The rule is simple for you – don’t have sex until he’s shown consistently over time that he’s developed a deep emotional connection and commitment to you.
How long is that time? I can’t tell you that, but you’ll know if you know what you’re looking for.
You’re looking for him to fall in love with you first. Real true deep “I’m all in and can’t help myself….” kind of love.
When this happens, you’ll know, everyone else around you will know.
Switch focus Avivit. Start observing and assessing him, whoever the guy or guys are you’ve got on your radar.
I’m not saying judging them. That’s messy and who cares how other people choose to live their lives.
There’s a way – and it sounds paradoxical but it’s possible – to be in the moment and totally sincere and genuine with the person you’re with, and yet also stand back from the relationship and see what’s happening.
I’ve realised (thanks to Eric here) that it’s all about being totally present. And yet not without boundaries. Having boundaries is super-important.
Do you know what your boundaries are Avivit? Do you know which ones work for you and which ones don’t?
I used to have very poor boundaries before. I disliked confrontation and being unkind, but what I didn’t realise was that my poor boundaries actually attracted the very thing I sought to avoid.
Then one day someone explained to me that “boundaries aren’t what separate us, they are the places we meet”.
It was a revelation to me. Suddenly I saw the pretty white fence encircling me, move out to a wider circle around me, giving me way more room and space. Space to just be, and breathe and play. Sacred space.
Space to see the person on the other side and what they’re like. Space to go out and meet the person at the fence. And enjoy magic with them…
Only with this space can you see cleanly and objectively.
In a romantic setting, this space represents knowing what the physical limits are of connection and it also represents time.
Give yourself this space. Everything will change for you when you do. Don’t rely on luck or other peoples stories. And I know you know this – sometimes people only tell you what they want you to hear anyway, not the real crippling truth of what’s going on inside their relationship. Sometimes, they don’t even tell themselves this truth. You’re far wiser and smarter than this.
I feel like your intuition is the wisest and strongest part of you. You know, don’t you Avivit, that when you’ve ignored it in the past, it’s been to your peril. And when you’ve listened to it, you’ve stayed safe and even wonderful things have happened.
This isn’t about doubting yourself. This is about trusting yourself. Trusting, and loving and honouring You. Having that truly deep loving connection with yourself first. And this can only happen in your own heart and body, if you extend out your boundaries first.
The minute anyone gets inside and oversteps that boundary, they can start overriding your better instinct. Never NEVER let anyone do that.
Boundaries are the places we meet. Set them up smart and strong. Never let anyone overstep them. No matter what.
Also, you mentioned your psychologist. I’m glad you dumped them, good for you. You’re getting smarter at seeing who’s good for you and who’s not.
I’ve had a ton of therapy and coaching in my time. I highly recommend you work with a coach instead. (And I swear I’m not getting paid by Eric or Sabrina to say this!) A good coach will save you literally years and even decades in progress. You will get to places you only dreamed of before. They will help you understand yourself AND move forward. You’ve got to have the right story about yourself and the right strategy. One without the other is no good.
Find someone who’s got a superb track record with their clients. Check out their testimonials and trust your intuition. As always, assess first and keep assessing. Fine tune that intuitive guidance system you have inside you. It’s your greatest ally.
You’ve got this Avivit. Sending you love 😘💖❤️💛
Eric CharlesKeymasterJust to clarify a bit:
– I say there are friends who have had sex on a first date and got married to say that the sex itself isn’t the dealbreaker. If a woman is already spectacular at relationships (in that she can create a profound emotional bond from the man quickly too… that is, she knows how to INSPIRE him very early on) and knows what to expect in terms of how she’ll feel emotionally, it can work out.
I will also say that the women who made that journey from sex-on-the-first date to marriage are also among the top 1% in relationship skill. Like some of these women are so good that I talk with them about relationship advice to get their feedback as I’m developing new content!
So it’s possible, which proves that the sex alone isn’t a dealbreaker for a man. But if the woman isn’t exceptionally skilled in relationships or in her own emotional navigation, then it’s a bad idea for her to do.
– The rabbit out of the hat analogy isn’t to say he’s a manipulator, just that two people’s experience can be massively different (namely how one can be profoundly impacted while the other feels nothing because nothing profound happened for them in the exchange)
“I want to find love and do not want to compromise, I want both a real deep loving connection and amazing sex.”
You can have that.
A big part of success is saying yes to what works. That means gaining knowledge and understanding of what leads to success.
Another equally big requirement of success is what you say NO to…
That’s worth reflecting on.
“I’m a mom, I have one daughter, and I also believe my success will also be hers.”
I love this idea and attitude. I think it will inspire and support your success. And I also believe it’s deeply true.
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