"I love you" during sex

Sorry to sound so neurotic!! I just REALLY don’t want to hurt his feelings if he is being at all serious…..on the other hand if he’s not being serious about the love stuff at all I can just go back to enjoying our relationship as is without worrying or feeling guilty about it……Anyway, yes, would love your take on this!!

Hi Raven,

That’s a really great question (maybe the one I’ve been avoiding??). Thank you!!! I’m definitely open to a relationship (at some point, with someone) though to be honest the whole idea also makes me a little panicky (so maybe I just don’t feel ready??)

Part of it is I’m a bit of a late bloomer dating-wise…..I’m 30 but I was always so focused on school that up until the past year or two I never dated much. And also, especially after reading the great advice around here, and experimenting in my own life, the strategy of focusing on being happy with or without a relationship just seems to work SO much better that I feel like I’m afraid of even wanting a relationship for fear of getting needy and/or sabotaging everything when it is going so well. I’m happier in the relationship as it is than I’ve ever been in any relationship before and I think a big part of me feels like I just don’t want to mess with it (and risk losing a really good thing by trying to make it something it’s not).

Part of it is I feel like we’re in pretty different places in terms of where we’re at in life – he’s older and more established in his career and values and priorities…..I’m finishing grad school right now and not totally sure what my life will look like afterwards ……I think I like the open-endedness of that and the idea of committing to anything still feels a little claustrophobic and sounds like being tied down (which is maybe an irrational fear) – even though I know that the best relationships actually create more freedom and more possibility for growth (at least that’s what this relationship so far has felt like and a big part of why I love it so much).

I think it’s hard for me to picture us in a different type of relationship because what we have has been working so far. I’m also VERY hesitant about the idea of a domestic relationship with anyone as I definitely want and enjoy my own space (not that one is impossible without the other but my gut reaction is definitely fear and apprehension, maybe because I’ve seen it ruin so many things before (or just be the end of all the romance and magic – although I know intellectually it doesn’t have to be like that, it still makes me apprehensive about losing what is so precious and great about the relationship in the first place).Whereas what we have now is so completely fun and easy and uncomplicated by any of that.

Sometimes he jokes about waking up together every morning and how great it would be – I totally agree but I think the whole idea is still in fantasy land for me (and I guess I kind of just assumed it was for him too.)

The focus has definitely been on sex so far – partly I think because it’s definitely the way I feel safest expressing emotion – so although I appreciate him for ALL that he is (his kindness, character, humor, integrity) and tell him so pretty often, for the most part I just focus on how much I love having sex with him – and it is really great, definitely the best sex I’ve ever has in my life – also the most emotionally engaged sex ever which is partly what I love about it – it just feels very real in a way that I haven’t experienced before (and I’ve had a LOT of sexual partners). In a weird way sex is kind of my comfort zone in terms of feeling and processing emotions, if that makes any sense at all.

Our opening talk last summer about where we were each at was basically just like “we’ll see how things go and just let things evolve” and that’s pretty much the attitude I’ve taken so far. He is SO supportive of me living my life, exploring with other people, and finding out what is right for me that it’s hard to imagine he could actually be serious about wanting anything different than what we have now. Occasionally I can sense that he’s a little jealous of the other guys but he hardly ever gets possessive and always just emphasizes that the most important thing is that I am happy. Sometimes he jokes about being too old for me or how much he’s going to miss me when I find the right boy (ie a guy more my own age I guess) although he knows I’m not in a big hurry to settle down with anyone, much less get married or anything like that. So I don’t really take it too seriously. The age difference has never really bothered me (in a lot of ways it’s great because we have a lot to learn from each other) but I can imagine it being more of a practical issue (different groups of friends, different places in life) were we to become more serious. As it is we get along really really well and it seems like a pretty risky thing to do to even bring up the possibility of anything more or different than what we have now, just because it’s so great as is and working so well.

I want to be honest about my feelings for him if he asks (I do love him – just as he is without necessarily wanting anything from him except to keep spending time together and growing together as we have been) but I would never say I love you unless he specifically asks me during sex. Outside of that I never bring it up just because it seems to heavy and I guess I hope he knows how I feel without me having to be too explicit about it (which just seems like it could make things weird or maybe not as fun and easy as they are right now).

Not sure if the whole I love you/joking about a relationship thing is just his way of saying he cares without pushing things any farther (if so, great) or if I’m being self-absorbed and not hearing what he’s saying just because the whole idea of a more serious relationship makes me a little nervous and I just don’t want to go there (in which case I feel like I have some definite issues to work on!)

Any outside perspective on this would be very welcome – thank you!!!!

Agree with EL.. ALL you said here is very valid and explained well. Just tell him the same. Tell him ” if there WERE to be anyone.. it WOULD be you “.. IF you feel you CAN tell him that.

Harley, just saw your post!!! Thank you that’s a really great way of phrasing it (and also completely true to how I feel)

What kind of tone would you say this in? Like seriously or lighthearted or somewhere in between??

Thank you SO much!!!

Hi.. I wouldn’t tell him about the other guys.. he may pretend it does not hurt his feelings.. but perhaps it does. I talk to my FWB about this type of stuff… but my FWB is NEVER going to be “mine” .. nor do I want him to be… he’s a serial cheater ! I HAVE NOT told him anything about my ex fance/love, only that I still care for him deeply.. I have cried on teh phone with my FWB and said I still love my ex.. but nothing personal about my ex.. as THAT is private between my ex and me. I think your guy wants to be ” yours ” so perhaps tmi ( too much inforation) is secretly hurting him. Just a caution.

Hi Harley and EL,

Thank you both so much!! You are both so insightful about all of this and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it.

To answer: YES, I would definitely choose him. Our dynamic is great, he is the most emotionally evolved person I have ever met – definitely still a guy but amazingly communicative and articulate and able to remain steady and calm no matter what the situation. He has taught me so much without even meaning to and I truly feel that I grow as a person with him … just by the nature of our interactions … so being with him feels very in tune with the overall personal growth and transformation I seek, and this is really important to me. The age difference is pretty significant (I’m 30, he’s 50), but so far it surprisingly has not really been an issue (but mostly we just hang out on our own, no telling what this would be like socially). We have a lot more things in common than I do with most people my own age (both in terms of shared interests and also that we just seem to be on the same page so it’s easy to talk and hang out. At the same time I DO feel he is much more mature than me in certain ways – just as a person – so I think that’s partly why I don’t take him seriously when he brings up the relationship stuff – I still see myself as very immature in comparison and with a lot of growing up to do until I could be a person who is as good and kind and relaxed and stable as he is. But of course, I would like to get there…whether with him or just in general in my life.)

I would even be open to a relationship now …. IF he proposed it …. but I think I feel like I don’t want to be the one to say it. If that were something he were interested in I think it could be really great and just more growth and connection …. I’m not totally sure what would change actually …. but of anyone that I could imagine being in a relationship with, he would definitely be the one, just because of who he is, the absolute respect and kindness and affection with which he treats me, and because our dynamic feels so natural and relaxed (and yet sort of intense and meaningful at the same time, although I would say that intensity only really comes out during sex).

I’m not sure how to handle the other guys – he always, always, always asks, and then asks for details, and seems to (for the most part) really genuinely want me to be happy and have fun no matter who it’s with (which I have never experienced before). He is an extremely secure and grounded and confident person. At the same time he definitely wants to know if he is the best and my favorite – again I can’t tell how much of this is joking around or actual competition and a (tiny) bit of jealousy – overall he is an extremely non-jealous person, I think again because he is just very grounded and open-minded and secure. But I DONT want to hurt him and would hate to think of even accidentally doing so. It’s tricky territory because a lot of his sexual fantasies involve seeing me with a lot of other guys and then him being the best one, the winner by the end. We actually have done this as well – I couldn’t get a read on how exactly he felt about seeing me with other guys but we did end up having a lot of fun, and it was the same sort of dynamic where he would encourage me to play with other guys but ultimately be recognized as the one in control and the one that I would end up (well, at least for the night). We have also done threesomes with girls (mostly because he knows I like girls) so I have seen him with other girls (hot but intense) … he always treats me as special during that though….like his focus will mainly be on me. And I’m not sure if that’s because he likes me so much or just because we have a very uniquely intense (at least in my experience) sexual connection so it just sort of comes out when we’re with other people.

I honestly don’t have any issues with him as a person …. if anything being with him has just done a lot to reveal make me want to be a better person, to meet him at his level …. and I do think that if this turned into a relationship (or grew into more of a relationship than it already is) I would be one hell of a lucky girl. I just never would have thought that that would be what he was interested in since from the beginning he was always very clear about just seeing how things go, plus I got the sense that he had already done the serious relationship thing before and was more interested in just being together than trying to make it into anything, which was totally fine by me. I was kind of thinking that he was past the marrying/children stage whereas I was maybe just never going to get there (I like kids but I don’t necessarily know that I want any …. I like relationships but I don’t necessarily know that I need to get married), so despite the age difference it kind of seemed like we were in a similar place and thus able to get along really well.

I guess my main goal right now is to just be kind and honest with him (about my feelings and feelings about a relationship with him, i.e. that I would be open to it in the future) IF it’s relevant….but the last thing I want to do is to make a big deal of it or force the talk if that’s totally not even where his head is at. I think I’ve seen so many posts/articles about NOT bringing up relationship future/status issues and just assuming that “it is what it is” for now and going from there that I’m a bit uncertain as to how to express where I’m at without it coming across as psycho or needy or controlling or trying to turn a FWB into a relationship. I wouldn’t really call it either FWB or a relationship at this point – it FEELS like something more in between, but I’m not sure if I’m totally misreading that which I think is why up to this point I kind of just wrote off all of his relationship/love comments as just him being silly and playing around rather than something I should listen to and think about seriously.

thank you SO MUCH for your perspectives – it has made such a difference in how i think about all of this already and i appreciate it so much :-) xoxo

I do think that you kind of need to be the direct one here, because he sounds very go with the flow and passive aggressive.

Hi EL,

You are so right. I guess my biggest issue at this point (and the reason I’ve been so go with the flow and wishy washy too) is that I don’t actually know what I want. Mostly because I haven’t been in a healthy serious relationship before so it’s hard for me to imagine what that would look like or what would change (besides not dating other people – and that part I don’t mind at all, the main reason to be dating them in the first place is to just not get all wrapped up with this guy or treat the relationship as more than it is.)

I guess what I need to figure out is what DOES change in a serious relationship as opposed to just seeing each other. I think I haven’t had enough experience to actually know (except for having a pretty good idea what the unhealthy version looks like, and that’s definitely what I don’t want to repeat. The consistent affection, respect, trust and fun is what I want to keep……beyond that ……I know this is a stupid question but I am honestly clueless…..what would I be getting myself into?? Or is it just something that you work out along the way???

Thank you again for such honest and straightforward advice. I’m so grateful

LAgirl…..yes, now that you say that, I think you are right.

We sort of take on different personas during sex so I’m not sure it has anything to do with real life.

I think I maybe just like the fantasy/ego trip of the idea of him being interested …..I definitely care very deeply about him as a person, and vice versa (I think) but that’s different than actually wanting a relationship together and I think I may have been confusing those things.

If it’s just a roleplay thing I’d rather not mess with it – my concern was that I was ignoring his words (and thus being insensitive to something he was trying to talk about) but if it has nothing to do with what he actually wants then I’d rather just go with the flow and let it be what it is……no need to mess with a good thing…..I think I’ve just been overthinking it

Thank you!!

PS We started out with dates but then I indirectly pushed it in more of a sexual direction …..I suggested that was what I was really interested in (because the sex was and is very compelling and sort of my main interest in the beginning, although I’ve really come to appreciate him as a person in the meantime – not in an I want a relationship way but just realizing that he’s a really good person… ) …..he seemed ok with making it more just about sex it was just the periodic if-I-were-your-bf comments that were kind of throwing me off…..

Anna,

Male Perspective – I read the entire string, including great responses from two smart and wise women.

If you have accurately described everything, which I believe you have, then here is what I believe is going on. I think he is very insecure about the age difference and he is anxious about losing you eventually. He asks you if you met any cute guys with his fingers crossed behind his back hoping that you are going to say no. I think he is constantly gauging where he stands – and where you are in regards to finding someone closer to your age – incidentally you never said how much older he is. I am 52 and recently started hanging out with a 36 year old woman. I can’t speak for her, but for me I don’t even realize that I am 16 years older when we are together. Sometimes when I am home by myself and I start thinking about how much I enjoy being around her – then I start to obsess over the age difference. It makes me feel a little bit insecure because it’s hard for me to believe that she isn’t eventually going to meet someone closer to her age, who still has all of his hair and an athletic physique and all of those other wonderful things men start to lose as they get older.

I suspect he is feeling exactly the same way.

There is one thing that throws me – if I was having sex and my partner said “I love your cock” – I would totally get off on that and would assure her that it is always available for her, and maybe I would respond with I love your kitty kat, or something like that. I would definitely not say what he said – not in the middle of sex. I think most guys would love hearing their partner say “I love your cock” and that they wouldn’t want to take the focus off of that so quickly. The fact that he did makes me think that he does want you to love all of him. Again I believe he is constantly gauging where he stands with you – do you just use him instead of a vibrator, or is it more than that – and just because he leaves one day knowing you really like him, doesn’t mean that by the next time he hasn’t started having doubts again. It seems like with both the age difference and the emotions he requires reassurances often that everything is still the same.

I am going to make a suggestion – from a Man’s perspective. You can certainly ignore it if it doesn’t feel like the right thing to do.

If I were you, the next time he asks if you met any cute guys, say “Actually, yes, I did. I met a very handsome guy who was really sweet. He is taking me to dinner on Friday night.”. I think that you will learn a lot from his reaction.

The first time you talk to him after Friday you can play it a few different ways depending on his initial reaction. You can tell him the date went really well and the guy was a gentleman and he didn’t try anything, and he is going to call you to make another date. My thinking is that this might make him take a stance if he feels like you are maybe about to start something that could potentially be serious. It seems like a good way to make him put his cards on the table.

Or – you could say you enjoyed the date, and the guy was really cute and fun – but in the end “he wasn’t you”. Something like that……

Or if he reacts initially like it is making him very jealous, you could say that at the last minute you called and broke the date.

That may seem underhanded and manipulative, but I believe that it is a good way to make some progress on understanding what is going on in his head and his heart.

MJ

Anna.. It’s GREAT to have the male perspective. ! Best of luck .