FWB – Mr Queenie … maybe..?


Home Forums Complicated Situation / Mixed Signals FWB – Mr Queenie … maybe..?

This topic contains 32 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Queenie 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • #846203 Reply

    Queenie

    Last night was so much fun. We cooked together, danced together, cuddled on the couch while playing video games… We had a blast.
    Now the million dollar question…
    Sooo I may have wimped out a bit. I didn’t flat out ask if it was a date. And kept looking for an opportunity to ask him SOMETHING.
    And then he mentioned that he stopped by his friends place the night before. Used she when talking about it. I do know he has a female friend, whom is living with her boyfriend and her kid. They’ve never slept together, he’s never been interested even when she was single etc. But I felt oh this is the perfect time. So I asked him “Are you seeing other people?” He kinda chuckled, smiled and said, “No”. Then I said, “Are you interested in seeing other people?”, he smiled again and said “No.” I responded, “oh ok, me neither”. He smiled and said “Alright. Right on.”
    And we continued the evening as described above. Is this concrete…? I don’t *think* so. I’m kicking myself for not asking for more clarity, but it’s a start??..
    I know, I know, I didn’t listen to everyone’s advice completely. I was myself though, probably felt even more comfortable with him than before and felt like he was, too.
    We did have sex, phenomenal sex, all over the house, multiple times. It was very passionate and ah so good lol
    When we did make it to bed, anytime I rolled away, he’d pull me back to him. We slept intertwined all night.
    Had breakfast together. Spent all morning talking. He asked if he could leave something of his here til we get together again (a part for his car), I said of course. He asked me what my plans were this week, we made plans to get together the next weekend (in 2 weeks) when I’m free.
    He thanked me for a wonderful evening, mentioned he may ask for my hand with a project he’s going to be doing soon (modifying his car, he knows I’m handy with cars, etc. and I do have 2 weeknights free). And said we’ll talk soon, see you soon. Held me for a long time, kissed me goodbye….

    I definitely need to ask more telling questions, and I’d prefer to do so in person, so I guess I have a bit to figure out how to have more um guts to lay it all out per say. But, this was a start? Right? Lol…

    #846206 Reply

    Raven

    I think you’re off to a good start…

    #846224 Reply

    Maddie

    It is a good start, sounds organic and not forced. Now that you told him you didn’t want to see other people, MAYBE he’ll feel more confident to follow up in a clear way about which direction this is heading. But you sound like you’re taking it in stride now, not assuming you’re in a relationship yet, and still planning to talk to him about clarifying what exactly he’s looking for if he doesn’t do it first. Which is good! Glad you had such a nice weekend :)

    #846226 Reply

    Queenie

    Thanks Raven. I agree.
    After some introspection, I am very satisfied and thoroughly enjoying the pace we’re going. Having developed a strong friendship where we respect, trust, confide in each other, celebrate each other’s accomplishments and strengths, and support each other during setbacks, has been such a positive and enjoyable experience. Slowly progressing is not what I’m used to, and I find it astronomically better than the lightening fast style of previous relationships. My ex husband told me he loved me after 1 month of dating, Red flag anyone?! Lol I was young and dumb, and that was a huge learning chapter of my life. Next serious relationship, the guy was coming over almost every night, I allowed it (my fault), but got so sick of not having ANY personal space, and that crashed and burned (not surprisingly) too.
    Someone asked on my previous post ‘how am I going to feel if he says he doesn’t love me the way I love him”. And respectfully, I never said I loved him. I absolutely care for him, have feelings for him, but love is a very strong word that I don’t take lightly.
    Long story, short, lol, I’m happy with how things went, and cautiously optimistic about how things will [slowly] progress.

    #846227 Reply

    Queenie

    Thanks Maddie!! :)

    #846246 Reply

    Tallspicy

    Not to rain on your parade but:

    A. Why will you see each other in 2 weeks. Two weeks is not growing a relationship timing
    B. If he does not contact you today, he is not into a relationship… maybe by noon tmrw being generous

    All the men who were ever my boyfriend words and actions matched: and contacted me with in 24 hours of official and great sex. Several sent flowers.

    #846249 Reply

    Queenie

    A. I’m a divorcee, and every other weekend the exH has my 2 children, so that’s my availability at the moment.
    B. That sounds like a hard and fast rule. I don’t expect or anticipate hearing from him today, as I also don’t plan on calling/texting just to say Hi, today. I know his communication style, and it’s very aligned with mine. I don’t expect or want constant attention, communication, or gratification. I’m comfortable with how we left things and feel there’s no need to ‘certify’ it by an obligatory text.
    I know he will reach out likely tomorrow or the next day, or I will do the same, and we’ll both enjoy the communication, likely end up talking about ‘nothing and everything’ cause that’s been our style thus far. And I really like it this way. There’s no pressure, but we both respond immediately when the other reaches out, so we never go more than 2 days without communication.
    Personally, I don’t really like the constant need for reassurance in response every hour / day. I like feeling comfortable going a day or two without it, then being excited to see him call…

    #846264 Reply

    Anon

    As I wrote in your first post, if he likes how things are- he will want things to stay the same. That’s what it sounds like to me. I’m not sure how this weekend was different than any other weekend you both would get together for dinner, hanging out, and sex.

    You know things are progressing when he wants to take you out, you meet his family, he wants to meet your kids. Otherwise, just enjoy what you’re doing. There’s no pressure to “move the relationship “ in any direction if you’re happy. It’s all prevention in case he thinks it’s casual and just walks away one day. Even if you are only seeing each other, it can be considered casual.
    If you feel like you would be very hurt if he walked away or stopped contacting you- you might want to have a conversation. However, I would guess he wouldn’t really say anything to make you feel secure in the relationship because he would have already said these things. In your most recent post you were asking all the questions and you offered up you’re not seeing anyone, he never asked. If I were you, I would see what he does and says- I would not bring up a discussion about what you want to call your relationship. Let him.

    #846277 Reply

    Liz Lemom

    Honestly I’m a little perplexed why you can’t just have a conversation about what you want. From the sound of it, this is a guy you see 2x a month for fun & sex. He doesn’t take you out, or integrate you into his life (introducing you to friends & family), or try to integrate himself into yours (meeting your kids, family, friends). And this has been going on for a year.

    It sounds like this arrangement you have is about having fun & good times. That’s fine, but a relationship is about more than that. A relationship isn’t always about feeling good. It’s about having disagreements, hard conversations, and yes, getting on each other’s nerves. That’s how you get closer. If that’s all you want, that’s fine! Like Anon said, a monogamous dating situation can still be casual. It doesn’t have to go anyway.

    I agree with Tallspicy’s point that seeing each other every 2 weeks isn’t really conducive to developing a relationship, if that’s what you want. I’m a single divorced mom & my bf is a single divorced dad, so I get your situation. I still saw him at least 1-2 times a week in the early days of our relationship. And he took me out. We met each other’s friends, etc. We weren’t just staying at home having sex. And when the time was right, we began hanging out with each other’s kids.

    I don’t mean to rain on your parade either. I’m glad you had fun! Although like Anon said, it’s not clear to me now the evening you describe was different from other evenings you spend with him (chilling at home & talking & having sex). I do think you should clarify to yourself mentally what you want (casual but monogamous? Or something more?), and *talk to him about it.*

    #846278 Reply

    Queenie

    Thank you Anon for your input. I guess I can see how this weekend was not significantly different from previous, but personally it has been. When we first started, we’d fool around in his living room and didn’t bring it into the bedroom. There’s been (albeit slow) progression to what I described above. He has met my friends, and he’s recently introduced me to his. I am no where near ready for him to meet my children. His family lives on the other side of the country, as does mine, so I in no way expect to meet them anytime soon, we both lost our Mothers at an early adult age, and quite frankly the step of him meeting my one and only family member (my brother) is at the bottom of my checklist, as I’m sure it would be for him. We’re in a similar (but different obligations wise) family situation so I don’t hold that as a deciding factor for him, and would hope (I think) he’s not.
    I certainly would be hurt if he up and stopped talking to me, as I imagine he would too if I ghosted.
    But as well as I know him, if he felt uncomfortable, he would tell me, as he did a year ago, and we remained friends. I was short term disappointed, but continued life, dated others, and we maintained our bond.
    Surely I’d be disappointed if he said same now, but his actions are different now.. so I’m just going with the flow for the time being. Maybe it’s something? Maybe it’s not?… time will tell, and I’m enjoying the ride thus far….

    #846279 Reply

    Newbie

    I think we all like it to work out but not to drive you into a car wreck. I wrote a response, it disappeared, it was very well aligned with anon and liz posts. My main point was, what do you really want?

    #846286 Reply

    Queenie

    Ah crap, I would love to see it, as I was hoping for your response Newbie lol
    What do I want?… in the immediate time period I want mutual respect and appreciation. Long term I for sure want more in the sense of more intertwined lives. But personally I’m not even ready for that step, yet, because I want to build a strong foundation first.

    #846287 Reply

    Queenie

    I’ve built houses on straw that got blow down at the first sign of conflict. I made poor choices with partners, allowed them too close too soon. I’ve been trying to learn my lesson and at this point, I just want respect, equal adoration, and patience.

    #846390 Reply

    Tallspicy

    Why do I think you will be on here week after week reading into sex that moves into the bedroom as a man who is your boyfriend?

    It is a hard and fast rule that men who are escalating show up more. If he contacts you the same amount nothing has changed and it is not a need for constant communication trust I was talking about (I don’t need to hear from my men everyday), but sure as sh$t, any man who does not call you the next day after supposedly becoming exclusive would be showing you in actions… you are still just a companion who he calls when he feels like it. This man is not showing you in actions or words that he wants this to grow beyond being convenient and fun. You can be exclusive, and still lack the depth for an integrated life. That is why an integrated life is something you talk about early and often… you have yet to have enough confidence to make sure he is not seeing others.

    The man who is your boyfriend claims you, shows you off, makes it clear he is not seeing, pursuing or sleeping with anyone else and says…. this is my girlfriend. You take crumbs and turn them into a loaf by saying he goes slow and you still have not clarified your status. He might simply be too lazy to be dating others… you are giving him rent free the girlfriend treatment.

    #846404 Reply

    Ewa

    I agree with Tallspicy, he did not ask you all those questions about dating others, he clearly does not care if you do or not.
    I think you should start withdrawing yourself because sooner or later he is going to leave you for his dream woman. I know some relationships start with being FWB but honestly not many and I feel like you are wasting your time.
    I know you won’t leave him because you are too attached, but that is the only way to find out what and how he feels about you. It is scary though

    #846414 Reply

    Liz Lemon

    You said “in the immediate time period I want mutual respect and appreciation.” But you had that, didn’t you? He’s always respected you and you always had a strong friendship. What you want is exclusivity– monogamy– right? You want this to go somewhere? Isn’t that what this is about?

    You’ve mentioned you made poor choices and moved too quickly in previous relationships. Could it be that you’re overcompensating now by getting involved with someone who’s *not* pushing for anything serious….taking things microscopically slow. You rightfully find it excessive that your ex said “I love you” after one month… but I’m sorry to say it’s also excessive on your part to consider it a sign of progress to move sex from the living room to the bedroom.
    .
    You’ve been fairly intensely involved with this guy for a year (from what you’re saying) but you’re not ready to intertwine your lives because “want to build a strong foundation first.” But integrating your lives at an appropriate pace IS building a strong foundation. From your multiple posts on this guy, it sounds like you have a strong friendship. I don’t think there’s anything more to do at this point to build a strong foundation, except take the plunge and talk about where things are going, if indeed you want it to go anywhere.

    This is just my opinion but it feels to me like you’re so scared of making the same mistakes again that you’ve latched on to a guy who is unavailable and not going to push for anything more than fun sex dates a couple times a month. The point others have made that you were the one asking all the questions about exclusivity, and he didn’t seem to bothered by it….that’s significant. A guy who wants to claim you as his woman will claim you. When I met my bf he was a few years out of a very bad divorce, and was very gun shy about getting into a serious relationship again. But he was still very eager to establish that we were monogamous, that I was seeing no one else, and that things between us were going somewhere. And he did that within about 8 weeks of dating.

    If you are okay with a casual bimonthly thing and don’t mind if this doesn’t go anywhere, then by all means keep on. But if you have any hope at all of having this guy as a partner (which I think you do, or else you wouldn’t keep posting about), I really think you need to address these issues head on. It’s scary, yes, but I don’t really see your nice date this weekend as much progress, from what you describe. It was more of the same- sex, talking, and see ya in 2 weeks.

    #846420 Reply

    Newbie

    Ill try to remember what i wrote. First youre high on oxytocin now, but not much has changed. Youre a sex vacation at the moment. Its not totally impossible he does want a relationship but then you need to know soon. And if its a no, you have to back off totally and 100% with the sex. Because there is a tiny chance he will change his mind once he realizes he misses you. Normally i never advice this, but in this case it might work. It gives him time to think about what he wants.
    You are making the classic female mistake thinking you can sex a guy into a relationship. Doesnt work. What does work is that he invited you for some car shop work. That does work. Thats the first sign he wants to do something with you outside the bedroom.

    The remarks liz and others made about becoming a part of someone’s life and the desire to do so are the best indicators a guy is all in. That is absent here and you keep making excuses for all that is absent. You dont want him to meet your kids any time soon (he has shown zero interest so far so thats a moot point), he introduced you to his friends as a friend, so no big deal. Going slow works for you etc

    If i didnt want a partner but some companionship this guy would probably be one of the best options. So i do get that. But you have expectations, you cant mix that. You also cant push that discussion forward because you are too scared. What will happen you will be even more hurt when its a no. And then you have two options: stay in this knowing youre not his woman so he can leave anytime or get out now.

    If you had always bad picks for men, i would look deeper into that. Because this also was a man where both of you stated 3 times it was just meant as casual. When you already had a crush on him before that. So how firm exactly are you when it comes to doing what is best for you?

    #846422 Reply

    Queenie

    Thanks all for your replies. For the majority of the time I had not hoped for anything more, I continued to date, had a bf at one point for several months (we maintained friends, no intimacy). Split with the bf in November, and we started sleeping together again in December. Again I didn’t have any hopes of anything because I rightfully assumed it was the same status as before. I’m not sure why in the last few weeks I even would think anything’s different now, except I guess I caught feelings this time and began reading into something that is not there.
    Idk what I’ll do yet, and I guess I feel kinda like an idiot at this point.
    I appreciate you all giving it to me straight.

    #846444 Reply

    Lane

    He’s enjoys his time with you but based on your last post where you had a BF and he backed off is very telling! That would have been the time he said or did something IMO, IF he had those kinds of feelings for you but all he did is go back to the ‘status quo.’ Bet if you told him you met someone, he would back off again.

    I would never stay in your position this long if I had any romantic feelings for the guy. I stayed in FWB’s only when I didn’t have them because that’s the whole point of them—having temporary fun. I walked away when they stopped working for me, especially when the guy wanted more than what I was offering: a friendship. I could offer him. Once they exposed their feelings I ended it because I don’t think its right to string someone along or lie to them (fake feelings) just because you are benefiting from the situation but they are not—its cruel IMO.

    With my current partner I had caught feelings (slowly fallen in love) and needed to know because I didn’t see the point of playing the “does he love me, does he not” game—he either did or he didn’t, where knowing is far better than not knowing. It took me awhile to get there because I seriously didn’t think I could do a relationship as my business consumed so much of my life and wasn’t sure I could juggle both. He showed me it ‘could work’ BUT I still didn’t know if I was just entertaining him and I sure as heck wasn’t going to waste my precious time going nowhere. When I asked “do you love me?”, he immediately said “yes” where he wanted to tell me much sooner but since I wasn’t acting all that interested, or “unemotional” his words, he thought I would run away if he told me lol. It was like a weight had been lifted off our shoulders and were able to easily segue right into a relationship.

    This why you need to get clarity, asap, because no one wins when you keep playing a charade (games)—the one who plays it is usually the loser, just sayin.

    #846450 Reply

    Anon

    I think a big question to ask yourself is what another poster said- what do you really want? It’s your life and you don’t have to fit your relationship into the mold of what others think a relationship is, you can define what you want. A lot of divorced individuals want to avoid the same issues as they experienced before and may be happy with the pace. Not every guy is looking for someone better, some just don’t want the relationship to go down the same path that didn’t work before.

    #846472 Reply

    Liz Lemon

    You’re not an idiot. I know it probably feels like we’re all piling on you at this point. I really like what Newbie wrote (I always do, she has great advice). Integrating you into his life means incorporating you into the mundane– grocery shopping, car repairs, laundry, etc. It’s not just about meeting friends/family/kids. What you’re describing is (as Newbie put it) a bimonthly sex vacation. Lane also makes a really good point– this guy had no problem backing off when you had a boyfriend, and picking back up again when you were single. That’s not the hallmark of a guy who’s emotionally attached. I’m not trying to belabor anything, just thought those were two very succinct, excellent points.

    Overall thought what Anon is saying is what counts. What do you want? It seems that you want more than just a casual fling from this. You are emotionally invested at this point. So it’s really important to clarify where his head is at. If he’s not as invested as you are, it will only hurt you to stay in this situation.

    #846498 Reply

    T from NY

    It happens a lot that women think relationships fail because they didn’t something wrong – rushed in, were needy, whatever. A partnership meant for you will just happen. Playing the cool-girl and keeping everything status quo for months on end is NOT a real relationship. And if you had a boyfriend during all this, stopping seeing this guy, then came back – a man invested and interested in taking things to the next level would be super mindful of that because they would not want to lose you again.

    I have a friend who is in almost the EXACT situation. One year in with a man she was beginning just hooking up with. Does he currently act like her boyfriend? I mean he texts her everyday, they see each other 2-3x per week and he tells her “you can call me whatever you want” when she asks if he’s her bf. That is NOT the same thing as a boyfriend in my book. She says it’s enough for her but she never knows if she’ll see him that weekend (even though she generally does) because she can’t just say “Babe what are we doing this weekend?” like if he was a real boyfriend. There are no “I love you’s” like there would be if he was a real boyfriend. There’s no talk about what they are to each other, what he wants from her, none of the things that happen after a YEAR when a guy is a real boyfriend. Call a situationship whatever you want, but not being able to talk about feelings or what is happening between you is a HUGE red flag and you’re not being honest with yourself about what he is to you or how you feel about him.

    I’m the one on one of your last posts who advised getting clear what you want. I am not attempting to be harsh – just helpful – it seems what you want is to be kept in the dark about his true intentions, enjoy his attentions as long as he provides them, then if he ever steps off or breaks off you can say you knew all along he hadn’t committed to you. If that’s what you truly desire (I don’t believe that but…) keep things as they are. It takes mental work and reflection, brutal honesty with ones self, as well as bravery to be alone, once you figure out what you want from a man is commitment and then walking away if you don’t get it. I wish you clarity

    #846507 Reply

    Maddie

    I have a slightly different opinion on this situation. While I’ve posted 3 times that you should directly clarify and communicate with him so you don’t lead yourself on, I think there are two possibilities in this situation. The first is what everyone is warning you about, that he’s trying to pay you lip service to continue the status quo of casual FWB, as he enjoys that so why change? BUT. I think it’s also quite possible that he did have to confront his feelings when you broke things off for another guy. And then when you started hooking up again, he knew he had feelings for you too (which is why it’s felt different) and doesn’t want to totally screw things up because you have a casual history and he may not know if he still has a chance or you’re on the rebound so he’s taking it slow.

    I don’t find the fact he’s not taking you out on dates during covid to be that much of a red flag. I still think that’s prudent. But it is important that he is finding ways to see you outside the bedroom and context of sexual encounters. So maybe he is starting with the car thing, maybe you can take walks together outside if the weather is okay, etc. Your time together shouldn’t revolve around and always include sex if this is turning into a relationship. And you can give him a few days to gauge his follow up after your weekend and see if he’s now making more plans with you outside of the bedroom.

    That all being said, the fact he hasn’t stepped up to be clear in his feelings yet and is taking things so slowly isn’t a great sign regarding his readiness and ability to be in a committed real relationship with anyone, as his behavior overall is quite avoidant. So I do see his overall behavior as potential red flags but I don’t have enough information to know how much and seriously he likes you. If he’d be a terrible actual boyfriend no matter what, then how much he likes you doesn’t matter.

    You’re the only one who knows if things truly have been different since December or if you’re just reading too much into it because you want them to be different and are searching for hopeful signs. I still think this past weekend was a start into figuring that out and you shouldn’t feel stupid, but I also agree with all the posts (and my own past responses to you) that getting past your fear and clarifying to him what you want sooner than later (and accepting whatever his response is and cutting off sex if he’s being wishy-washy about solid bf/gf commitment) will be much better for you in the long run.

    #846517 Reply

    Queenie

    Thank you Maddie for your perspective.
    After reading through everyone’s replies, I couldn’t get it all out of my head today. I spent most of the day beating myself up for letting myself think he seemed to be showing subtle signs he was catching feelings / let myself start to get excited by the idea, because like I mentioned before, when we started back up, I was confident I’d be fine with status quo for fun, and continue dating etc.
    Then I did some digging, browsing through our texts over the last year.
    When we started hooking up in March ‘20 we had a very clear conversation about what it was. And I noticed 95% of the texts were about hooking up / sexual in nature.
    Then in May I started chatting to an Ex (didn’t mention it to him), but I msged him that if I start seeing someone else, I will let him know and I would appreciate him doing the same for me.
    He called me almost immediately and he said “hey maybe we should call off the ‘benefits’ part and just be friends for now” I took that as him not wanted to have to tell me if he was, which was fine, and shortly after I was involved for months with an ex.
    Reading through, I noticed his texting completely change (I did end up mentioning I was seeing someone), it was not sexual (as appropriate and expected), but much deeper conversations. He even started calling weekly, which eventually made the bf feel a bit insecure, so I didn’t always answer or respond for a while.
    But now, his communication style and behavior is noticeably different than the first time we were FWB as I read through.
    They’re never sexual in nature now. Not once has he mentioned hooking up (granted we did, but that wasn’t the intention of the visit). He calls much more frequently and we talk for hours. Not like in the past FWB timeframe when it was typically strictly to set up hooking up.

    I still need clarity, of course, cause as a lot have said, none of this means anything, and likely means nothing.

    Time and clarity will tell, and I agree, the sooner the better.

    #846518 Reply

    Queenie

    And in hindsight, our interactions have changed since the last FWB episode. Previously, it was we knew what the plan was, we’d almost immediately start hooking up, small talk and then once day broke him or I was out the door.
    Now, none of our get togethers were focused on sex. One night was him meeting my friends for dinner and drinks, no sex, then me meeting his friend, sex, breakfast etc, me meeting his other friends for game night, no sex. Then the one described above.
    I’m taking it all with a grain of salt, now. And I appreciate the discussions because it’s helped me to try to understand why / how I thought things were different.
    And quite frankly I’m guessing it’s because our friendship has just developed more. Where before we were benefits first, friends second, and now maybe we’re friends first, benefits second, if that makes sense.

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