This topic contains 23 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by Ss 2 days, 2 hours ago.
June 29, 2020 at 9:07 am #794803
This is just a vent really about men’s expectations around sex – sexpectations!
I went on a good date yesterday with a guy that had relentlessly been pursuing me. I kept it to 2 hours and just a couple of drinks and the man was an absolute gentlemen. He messaged to ask me on a second date when i got home. My issue is that he suggested a walk then an aperitif at his place. I said yes to a second date and jokingly commented on the aperitif element, as to me it suggested perhaps getting a bit physical. He replied and said he was always a gentleman on the first date and that “who knows” what an aperitif could mean. He then commented on my figure – liking my curves and that he had to restrain himself from touching me on the date. Urgh! I lightly reminded him that i dont have sex with men who may be having sex with others. He replied with a line of laughing emojis which baffled me a bit. I didn’t respond as there was nothing to respond to.
I mean I’m not dumb, no one expects exclusivity after one date but my boundaries are clear- I’m not risking my health just to have sex and I’m not looking for a hook up, so I’m not going to put myself in a situation that could be awkward. I’m left feeling not that enthused by a second date.
I’ve noticed that since I’ve made changes to my dating attitude i have more dates that don’t go anywhere because men seem to want a reassurance I’m going to have sex next time – it has been that blatant! They ask for a second date and either explicitly or subtley indicate that they want sex or the ambit of the conversations turns sexual and i keep having to steer it away. I then end up changing my mind about the date or they fade once they realise I’m not likely to sleep with them.
I see it as I’m weeding out those just after sex which is great – no time wasting, no anguished “does he like me” rubbish. But, aside from a couple of guys i have not been interested in having a second date with, all post date interaction seems to be steered towards sex by men and i am just so sick of it!!! I’m no prude and if the mood takes me and I’m not so invested that I’m not bothered if i see the man again i may well have sex on whatever date I want be that the first, second or later. But i am so irritated about it being an expectation and it is clearly being communicated as what these men want.
Anyway, my vent is over. I guess i need a dating break again!June 29, 2020 at 9:59 am #794806
T from NY
Believe me this is the majority of womens experience when meeting men from dating apps. Literally. I’ve been divorced 5 yrs and on and off the apps during that time when not in a committed relationship. Sure Ive tried to meet men different ways (volleyball, lectures nearby, golfing, through friends, attended the gym that entire time before pandemic, etc) and yet apps are the primary way people in my small city meet other single people. I am averaging finding 1-2 guys PER YEAR that I could see myself dating, after meeting scores of others.
What I remind myself is 90 percent of men go on apps for sex. They really do. Many are not looking for a relationship from the onset, and only a small percentage of the sex-seeking group would allow themselves to fall into love if a great woman showed up. So it really is a needle in a haystack type situation.
It sounds like you’re in a good emotional place. Which is essential when using apps. I rarely get discouraged now when dates go awry from men’s sexpectations because I accept that’s the geography I’m in when choosing to participate, I’m happy by myself and practice patience as much as I can knowing I rarely meet someone I feel worthy of me (lol) and because expecting it to be different when you’re dating from apps is like expecting to get fresh water in the middle of a desert. Now I do not have sex outside of a committed relationship, and even then, work super hard at not fallIng hard until the guy has invested in me for over 3 months. (Because that’s about how long it takes for some to really decide if they want to go forward with you) Moral of the story: Get happy with you. Date yourself first. Expect sexpectations. If they lead wanting sex, chances are it won’t change with that being all they want. Laugh off the dudes not for you. Enjoy human interaction. And believe the good man will show his face eventually.June 29, 2020 at 10:00 am #794807
The problem is, woman and men see life with a different lens because of our biological differences.
Women make a connection wholly differently than men do, which is what trips them up, and makes dating infinitely harder than it really needs to be. Sex is NATURAL, and men who have a good sex drive (high level of testosterone) are NATURALLY going to gravitate to wanting that with most woman they are attracted to, or not even attracted to if the sex well is dry lol.
I don’t put a lot of emphasis on sex. If I want it, I do it, without any *expectations* that it will go further than a ONS. This mindset helps keeps me grounded, and not *use it* to try and trap a man into something he doesn’t want, such as a relationship. I had *break up* sex with my ex husband! Seriously, I had just broken up with my boyfriend, was super drunk on New’s Years Eve, and I didn’t give a flying flip if I ever saw or spoke to him again! Its this kind of *attitude* that helps to keep you grounded, and sort out the guys who aren’t in it to win it, so to speak, because they are the one’s who keep pursuing you, whether sex was involved or not.
He’s just one, of several men I had early sex with, and then pursued me into a relationship! Its really not about the SEX (although bad sex could be an issue lol); its truly boils down to how a man FEELS when he’s with or around you, and how much he misses you, when your not, whether you are dating or not! I’ve never saw the purpose or reason to tell a man “I don’t have sex until certain conditions are met.” Seriously, you either DO IT or YOU DON”T based on how YOU personally feel about it, and not using it as some form of *bartering chip* to catch or trap a guy into something he may not want with you or anyone else for that matter.
I’ve had men profess their love for me without ever going on date, or giving them any kind of attention other than the platonic buddy/friendship type, so I understand how men *connect* in the way THEY need to in order to take it to the relationship level without you having to do NOTHING but be your natural self! So my suggestion to you is to take SEX out the equation entirely, and don’t talk about it! Just get to know guy’s in a PUBLIC SETTING, and discuss non sexual topics if you want to keep sex off the table lol. Its really that simple; whereas if they flit away then it doesn’t matter if you have sex or not, they were going to flit away because they didn’t connect to you un-sexually in the way a man needs to keep seeing you.June 29, 2020 at 10:07 am #794808
I expressed my views on (american) dating a few times, where i mostly see it as a meat and money trade market: sex as rewards for meals. And while women are all gloating about how to ‘be valuable’ all the men are thinking: does this really cost me another meal? It has nothing to do with being an independant women but taking part in an ancient model as: you can have the goods after i am convinced you can take care of me. lol Sorry, so i dont think i can be of much help. Except: Yes take a break and try real life dating for a while once covid 19 allows more events. My friend for example always told me to take an oil painting class as all the nice single guys are there. I think your new attitudes does serve you better but youre a bit worn down.June 29, 2020 at 10:28 am #794810
I completely agree with you both. I don’t invest in men I’m chatting to or dating until they are a boyfriend. I don’t bring up sex or comment when i will or won’t have sex, its not so prize or something to be negotiated
Its difficult though as its the men that are raising the topic and so I’m pushed into having to state i don’t want sex with someone who is having sex with others. It’s a boundary of mine and if these guys tell me their sexpectations i then have to tell them mine.
I’m so bored of it all because it feels like all i do is weed out the guys who are mostly after sex and not open to a relationship. I have sex when i want and if i do, i do so with the mindset that i don’t give a toss if i see them again. No trap, no feelings of being “used”, no worrying about men “pulling back” etc. I’m in a good place with dating. Its taken me a while to get my head straight and learn not to do all the things we see repeatedly posted on this site.
My point is more just having a moan really. I’m just fed up with looking for the needle in the haystack. Dating these days does feel much harder but the conclusion i have reached is that I’m going to have a pause in dating to get over my current burn out and then when i start again I’m not going on apps, I’m going to go on a paid for site as i would hope that in paying to be on a dating site these men are likely to be a little more serious about wanting to consider a relationship rather than just sex! Who knows but I’m feeling a bit fed up with the same old, same old … its bonkers to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result :-)June 29, 2020 at 10:33 am #794811
Ewww, reading how he responded with the emoji’s just grossed me out. He sounds like a guy who likes to play games and is really immature.
I say, talk about your boundaries or don’t talk about them because at the end of the day it’s your life and how you want to present your standards. If a guy wants a date at his house you can always say “I don’t want that to lead to something I’m not ready for, what else do you have in mind” or offer another option.
In my experience, you’re right. Many guys expect sex by the 2nd date. It’s disgusting and so unrealistic to me. I’m sure they are dating girls who are giving it to them so they think it’s the norm but if they can’t wait until you’re comfortable then they are not worth continuing to date.
I’ve only slept with one guy out of the five I’ve dating through dating apps. The four guys I didn’t sleep with I made it clear I wasn’t comfortable with that level of intimacy unless I really was sure of seeing a future with them. I ended it with all of them eventually because I just wasn’t feeling it. The one guy I did sleep with I saw a future with and we had dated for some time before it happened. If a guy just wants sex because he thinks that’s the next step, then he needs to date another girl because that’s not my style.June 29, 2020 at 11:41 am #794816
Ss, you are dating like a woman should: with clear and realistic boundaries, clear sense of what you’re looking for, etc. You don’t fit the mold for an average dater. The quality guys are out there but they aren’t a dime a dozen. And who has time to go through a dozen! ;)
Taking a break every once in a while so you don’t get resentful or annoyed is a really good way to balance it out. Just keep doing you. <3June 29, 2020 at 12:16 pm #794818
I think this “dating” mindset is what’s killed the whole process!
Back in my day “courtships” were how relationships evolved naturally. Guy meets girl, girl is interested in getting to know guy better. Guy and gal would engage in mostly free activities (beach, friends party, drive in the mountains, etc.) or inexpensive ‘outings’ (local concert, dancing at a club, roller skating/bowling, etc.), and maybe catch a quick bite there or afterwards IF we were having a great time. Formal ‘dinner dates’ didn’t usually happen until after we were a couple; whereas “Courting” was activity based that took place in public settings (like I listed above), and if you really liked each other the PDA would naturally increase to a lot kissing, holding hands, being all lovey-dovey, etc. which is when the lady *knew* the guy really liked her, so there was very little guessing going on haha.
Back then the *primary motive* for BOTH guys, and gals, was the pathway to finding “a mate”, not a date. If you got on really well, relationships back then evolved very quickly (few outings) but often dissipated early too (before six months) as you spent time together to see how well gelled as a couple, or not, or if someone better came along lol. I MISS those days for the ladies today!
Because of this early “courtship” experience I never really developed “a relationship” mentality because that was the unspoken goal, when a man pursued you romantically, so it wasn’t something you had to think about because you could smell “a dog” (sex only guy) pretty quickly lol. I’m amazed as to how bad its gotten in the past 30+ years, that you even need to have that convo!
In a nutshell, the best mindset is to be totally FINE on your own (single) which is the *key formula’ you need to have with men, in general, whether in a relationship or not. Majority of my relationships evolved when I wasn’t interested in or even thinking about coupling up, just living my carefree normal life, and randomly meeting guy’s while out and about. I would just live your life normally, without a dating/relationship mindset, by just randomly meeting, and talking to guys anywhere, and everywhere, who are not on the internet haha.
Of course I had some “crushes” a long the way that never panned out but they didn’t last long because while doing my thing (living my life)—another guy would came along, and take my mind off that one, so I was able to move on from uninterested guy’s very quickly, and easily :o)June 29, 2020 at 1:20 pm #794977
Yes, a while ago people would date to get married pretty much in your early 20’s. It’s a whole new ball game out there now as people don’t date for this sole reason- both men and women. So if you’re looking to find a man to marry and have kids as most women don’t want to have children and raise them on their own, then you must go through the process of finding a guy who is also interested in this. Nowadays, both men and women can be single a long time and date with never a plan to marry so guys are able to enjoy women like this and this may be preferable as they don’t have to provide for them or enter into this traditional role. I’m not sure if I would call dating now harder but I think both men and women have so much more freedom to do what they want instead of following certain paths that were more traditional with marriage being the end goal- a goal that has less than a 50% success rate The 1st go around, with the success rate reduced with every additional marriage. Almost ridiculous to set a goal to get married a second time!June 29, 2020 at 3:13 pm #794993
Er, yeah Anon, for me it would be third time lucky! I’m not dating for marriage but i would like a partner … although i often find myself thinking that I’m pretty happy by myself and lots of time with one person isn’t something i really want.
I’d love to meet someone organically but thats the problem. When i do go out with my friends I’m not “on the pull” in fact i wouldn’t even notice if a guy was checking me out as I’m too busy having a nice time with my friends. I have lots of friends, a usually really busy social life and i have a really busy career. It would take a pretty awesome man to lead me to giving up my freedom and making space for them – hell, don’t even have enough wardrobe space to have someone live with me!
Next year my boys both will be off to uni and I’ll be alone. This sounds a bit odd if you are not a dog person but i kind of pictured it just being me and my dog leading my busy happy life. But my dog got ill very suddenly 3 weeks ago and he died. I was shocked at how heart broken I’ve been by his loss. I’m rambling but my point is i feel like I’ll truly be alone next year now my dog has gone and i know i don’t want to get another dog- i could never go through that loss again. So i guess i worry about being the lonely 40 year old singleton as almost all my friends have relationships. It would just be nice to meet someone but all the men i meet end up being losers and there is no way I’ll ever just settle again like i did with my last marriage. I compromised so much and then he drove me mad because we just were not compatible.
Anyway, dating is tough, especially when you have clear values and boundaries so i guess I’ll get back out there at some point but I’m feeling pretty much done with it atm!June 29, 2020 at 5:36 pm #795000
Oh and in case anyone is wondering what happened after the laughing emojis and my lack of response? Nada, nothing, not a peep! So at least i know my bulls**t radar is fully functioning :-)June 29, 2020 at 6:11 pm #795001
it sounds like you dodged a bullet. All my friends are married, engaged or have been with their partners for many years. I don’t have a dog since my place doesn’t allow animals but I would like one someday if I ever moved.
I don’t enjoy being alone but it doesn’t bother me either. I see it as just the way life goes sometimes. I’m open to meeting someone though and I don’t limit it to just meeting someone organically. I don’t know how you could in the age of covid anyway, there isn’t much going on and socializing with strangers is frowned upon right now.
I go thru the dating apps here and there and just feel like “what have I got to lose”. I’m just trying to stay positive since there isn’t much else to do.June 29, 2020 at 11:02 pm #795006
The problem is your boundaries are not strong enough and the universe is therefore throwing you these type men until you are ready for a good one to come along.June 30, 2020 at 5:53 am #795014
Not sure what you mean Sensy? My boundaries are plenty strong these days … if they weren’t I would have agreed to the “aperitif” at his house!June 30, 2020 at 9:20 am #795017
Boundaries are strong when you practice what you preach- so no sex on the 2nd date if you go on one with this guy. I’m not sure what his text meant. He could just be awkward at texting. I’m not sure I like the comment about being a gentleman on all 1st dates as that implies he isn’t on other dates?? Probably best to let this one go.June 30, 2020 at 1:03 pm #795025
Ss – The fact that you were entertaining communication on this guy is what I mean. As soon as he commented on your body is a huge red flag. You have to “duscard” right away! You cannot accept any type behavior. My bf has been respectful since the get go (and proved he would be). He was patient as well.
June 30, 2020 at 1:03 pm #795026
- This reply was modified 2 days, 17 hours ago by ANM Staff. Reason: Fixed wrong name
June 30, 2020 at 1:04 pm #795028
- This reply was modified 2 days, 17 hours ago by ANM Staff. Reason: Fixed wrong name
Oops…sorry “discard” was my post.
Mod update: I understand – I fixed it up so people don’t get confused :)June 30, 2020 at 2:06 pm #795038
This last entry is what we dutch call to look for nails on low water: you can always find something. From what i seen and read ss dates smart but if just fed up. But its true that when feeling lower, like now when you grieve your dog, its best not to date at all. And i know lots of older single women who have the time of their life without a man. In fact they dont want them. So i wouldnt stress over itJune 30, 2020 at 5:16 pm #795050
I don’t agree with you are saying Sensey – he made these comments after the date. He was entirely appropriate prior to and on the date. Once he made the gentleman comment, asked me to go this place for an “aperitif” and commenter on my breasts i put him straight he replied with emojis and i left him on read. I have not contacted him and he hasn’t contacted me. I’m not sure i could have known that his conversation would take such a turn. That’s why i posted as i was fed up!
Anon- i do practice what i preach. I’m dating for a relationship so i don’t have sex with men immediately and when we are not sexually exclusive. The amount of men that try and get sex without a condom is pretty shocking. Here in the UK the most common demographic of the population to get STDs are the over 35s!! Not teenagers, grown adults. Smh. So yeah I’m not interested in having sex with every man i go on a date with.
I have of course had one night stands or hook ups in the past and enjoyed them, but when I’m doing that with men i do so not expecting to see them again and with it being clear on both sides what is up.
Any way, I’m no longer in such a fed up mood and posting on here has helped as it always does. thanks for the advice and support :-)June 30, 2020 at 6:03 pm #795054
You’re welcome!June 30, 2020 at 9:26 pm #795073
Ss – your mindset should be “is he proving he is worthy of you). He commented after the date about your body and is a huge red flag. Anything along the lines of “you’re beautiful” or “your beauty left me almost speechless would have been appropriate. It is his tone that you need to be picking up on. The guy is NOT in potential relationship mode. Was he awkward during the date? Likely not. Awkwardness would be from someone who is emotionally investing.June 30, 2020 at 9:30 pm #795075
Also, you mention you don’t have sex unless sexually exclusive. FWB’s can have such dynamics. You want to hear the word “girlfriend” come out of his mouth. That is the guy who sees a future with you and is emotionally invested.July 1, 2020 at 3:47 am #795095
Sensey it feels like you are reading someone else’s post as your comments to me make no sense! I’ve not posted for advice on dating, i know what I’m doing and if i don’t I’d ask a specific question on here. This post was basically one big moan. It sparked a helpful discussion about men and sex and it made me feel less bummed about dating.
I’m well aware his comments about my breasts are red flag, I’m not having anything to do with this man because of his texts POST date so obviously i don’t see him as relationship material and he definitely was not in relationship mode.
I know how fwb works, I’ve been there and done that. Having a boundary where i don’t have sex with men who are not SEXUALLY exclusive is perfectly normal and not about waiting till any man calls me his girlfriend.
I appreciate you trying give advice and its spot on for someone who hasn’t got their dating head straight!