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Debsterism.
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Chloe
A new guy I’ve recently started dating is asking how many people I’ve been with before. We have not been intimate yet. He is pressuring me to tell him. He says that he just wants to know in case I change the number in the future.
I declined to tell him and we haven’t talked in a few hours. I know he is not going to let it go until I have told him.To be honest, I’m not telling him because:
1) I will not be entirely honest and I don’t want to be put in a position to lie. There was a time I was at the lowest point in my life after losing all my savings and I had spontaneous sex to just feel something different from the distress I was feeling.
2) I no longer sleep around. I’ve changed. So I don’t feel like my past should follow me.
3) I read somewhere that asking for body count is a sign of manipulation. I’ve greatly been manipulated by men before. By narcissistic men. And I’ll be damned if I ever tolerate one again. So I don’t know if I’ll be falling for a manipulative man if I give up the body count answer.I’ve never had a guy ask me how many people I’ve had sex with and I’ve never asked a guy.
This guy is really good. We vibe. We connect. We really have feelings for each other. It’s like I just met my guy. Yet, the request of my body count could be a hindrance???
I have two choices… lie with a low number or stick to not telling him.
He will probably assume that I’m a slut if I don’t tell him and he will not forget it or let it slide.
So, my dear sisters, I’m seeking your advice on whether I should lie with a number like 3…and we move on. Or should I stick to not telling him at all and be dumped? If he doesn’t dump me, he will be disturbed by it.
Raven
It’s. None. Of. His. Business.
He is telling you LOUD & CLEAR who he is…
You are correct about point #3You dump him.
There is no shame in having sex.ps: If you lie, lie HIGH, like 3,000
Maddie
I generally agree with Raven and with point #3 when 1. he is PRESSURING you about it and 2. if he’s a new, recent guy, you do not know him well yet and it’s very personal information and 3. he wants to make sure you don’t change the number later?? What a gross thing to say. Plus it means he already doesn’t trust you!!
It’s okay for you not to want to share it right now. This seems like a red flag either because he seems to be asking you in judgment, and/or because he feels entitled to know and thinks you are slighting him when he hasn’t earned knowing something so intimate about you yet. So that is disrespectful of you and your boundaries. It is not okay if he wants to know more than he cares that you are uncomfortable. While everything else may seem good so far, you barely know him yet, and he may be showing you some true colors here.
This is a conversation I’ve actually had before with some guys I’ve dated (mostly out of curiosity and maybe for some safer sex information), so I don’t think it’s totally unheard of. But the difference is it wasn’t uncomfortable or accusing – it was mutual sharing, which made it fine. Listen to your instinct that you don’t feel right about this.
Liz Lemon
I agree with the other posters. This is kinda twisted. Why does the number of people you’ve slept with affect your relationship? I’ve never asked my bf that and he’s never asked me.
It’s one thing to casually ask, or if you’re having a comfortable conversation and it comes up and you feel comfortable discussing. The red flag here is the fact that he’s pressuring you! And that he thinks you might “change” the number later, which means he is putting a moral judgment/value on the number (and also shows he doesn’t trust you and think you’ll lie). And it’s the kind of thing that can be thrown in your face later. I totally agree with your point about it being manipulative. There’s no need for him to have that information unless he plans to use it for some reason later (and by that I mean use it to throw in your face).
I know you feel like you vibe/connect, but this is a new guy you’re dating and you don’t know him- he’s showing you who he is, unfortunately. A decent, respectful guy would not pressure you about something like this and make you feel guilty for not sharing.
T from NY
If he brings it up again, I would be like – “Ya know I thought about it, and that’s not something I want to ever talk about. Or, if we do, I want to be the one to share. If that’s a deal breaker for you – thanks for letting me know.” Then try to change the subject.
Because it’s definitely intrusive. And a giant flag for me when a guy asks that. Barf
tammy
i think raven said it. if you guys discuss and both are comfy sharing this info then that’s great. but if your not, then he needs to respect that and not force you to share. why shld you share if you do not want to share?? you dont have to share your past if you dont want to.
Chloe
We have talked but he hasn’t brought it up again.
But I know he is not the kind of person to let something go, so if he brings it up again, I will tell him that I can’t deal with a man who is intrusive like that.
Anyway, I just hope that he isn’t a narcissist.
Thanks guys.Kim
Hi Chloe. You said in your original post that this guy is good because you vibe. I’ve got some advice for you. A guy that asks how many people you’ve slept with is not good and I’m saying that from my own experience.
I have been with my husband for almost 5 years now and I have never told him how many people I’d slept with before him and he has never told me how many people he’s been with either. There is no reason to bring up past relationships, unless it’s going to affect the new one like in the case of if the other person has cheated before or if they are abusive in some way. They are things you’d obviously need to know when dating someone.
Why does it matter to him how many people you’ve been with? If he’s going to make or break his decision about you based on that make it easy for him and walk. You don’t want to be dating someone like this. It smells of trouble.
Alex73m
Tell him the truth and let him go. Must men don’t want women who had casual sex for a long term relationship and this is absolutely reasonable. You should look for men with high body count.
Raven
@Alex73m, misogynistic much?
Eric Charles
KeymasterI haven’t written about this yet, but we all (men and women) have to navigate a new cultural landscape.
These days both men and women have media figures whispering in their ear about how their love life should or shouldn’t look.
I know women do (because I’ve been in this field for over 20 years), but men have it just as much.
And BOTH sides have prominent, exploitative voices at the top. I’m not saying that’s all of them, nor am I saying there isn’t also helpful, thoughtful important messaging at the top.
But in today’s landscape, we all need to be aware of the prominent messaging on both sides in order to navigate the dating field.
I wish it weren’t this way, but it is…
Specific to this post: Men’s media is now infused with love life advice. Some of it is good and thoughtful; some of it is incendiary.
But when you boil it all down, the underlying message of the incendiary-brand advice for men is “don’t be a sucker”.
That hits a nerve deep in every man’s psychology. No man wants to be a “sucker” or a “loser” or to be “exploited”. Women don’t either, but I believe it carries a different kind of sting for men…
So for the influencers and advice givers, their catch-all trick is to frame up different female behaviors and tie it to that feeling: she’s trying to make you a sucker, she’ll betray you, she’ll screw you over, you can’t trust her, etc.
I bring this up because, like it or not, we live in this cultural landscape now.
For every woman that has someone whispering in her ear that he’s a “narcissist” or “emotionally abusive” or “has an avoidant-attachment style” or some other psychology-flavored scarlet-letter attached to him, men have similar advice whispering to them.
To be clear: I’m not even saying that all the advice on the men’s or women’s side is without basis or outright unworthy of consideration.
However, I take great issue with the implied prescriptions of all the sensational “help” out in the space now for men and women.
The formula is simple:
1. Cold read their situation: “Is this thing happening in your situation?” (If they’re looking at relationship advice at all, chances are, it is.) The influencer describes the situation better than the viewer/reader could themselves. The viewer/reader thinks, “Oh wow, this is exactly like what I’m going through!” (Even if it only partially is — just like astrology or fortune telling, people enjoy applying what fits to themselves and ignoring what doesn’t… again, it’s a “cold read”.)
2. Tell them it could mean something terrible about the man/woman: They hedge (so they sound reasonable). They say, “Look, this isn’t everyone, but sometimes if a person is doing XYZ, it means they’re a [irredeemable terrible label].” The reader/viewer thinks, “I don’t know about this… I mean, they fit that description, but I don’t think they’re some kind of demon…”
3. They plant the landmine: They say, “Look… it’s not everyone. But here’s how you know they’re a [irredeemable terrible label].” Then they give you some test DESIGNED to provoke the partner into displaying the “proof” that they’re a [irredeemable terrible label]. The so-called test will be designed to provoke a predictable reaction from the other person because it’s constructed to be passive-aggressive, a veiled confrontation, or an implied insult. The reader/viewer doesn’t realize this because they’re taking in this information uncritically. After all, an “expert” is telling them this is the test!
4. The reader/viewer does the test and, surprise, the partner fails it, “proving” they’re a [irredeemable terrible label]. Now the reader/viewer thinks maybe they’re dating a monster and goes back to the “expert” to learn more. They now have a new subscriber taking their first step into a long road of indoctrination.
For women, this is all the content about “narcissists”, “emotional abuse”, etc.
For men, this is all the content about “gold-diggers”, “hos”/”former-hos”, hypergamy, etc.
Now again, I have to make it clear that I’m not saying these discussions are outright bad or wrong.
I’ve read several books on narcissists (defined both in the clinical sense and the pop-psychology sense) — they covered scenarios and topics that are worthy of scrutiny and awareness.
Here’s where I take issue… we have to look at the full picture of today’s world. This culture is saturated with media-influence.
Even if you (or a guy) aren’t an avid media consumer (no social media or TV), we still passively absorb it since we live in a society of people who do.
Most people consume some amount of media, and sooner or later that media will touch on today’s zeitgeist of psychologizing their partner as a “secret villain”.
That’s really what it boils down to…
Everyone, sooner or later, has an “influencer” in their ear, whispering ideas about how their partner (or the person they’re starting to date) might be a “secret villain”.
Sure, you didn’t see it on the surface immediately, but don’t worry—the “expert” or “influencer” will explain why you missed it. And they’ll tell you how to discover that this person is actually secretly angling to abuse you/screw you over.
Are there bad people in the world? People you’d be better off not having in your life?
Absolutely.
And is it a good thing if someone reveals that someone is actually bad to have in your life if they really are?
Absolutely.
That’s what makes this tricky to discuss… there’s a huge benefit for the people who really do need this help.
The issue is that that’s not most people. It’s a very specific subset of people, a very, very small %.
But we live in a world where “experts” and “influencers” need to market themselves continuously.
And it’s not lost on me that technically I fall into the “expert” category… There are many ways to present yourself, but being in this field gives me a different perspective on making content since I create content myself.
To bring all this in for a landing: On its face, asking about a body count seems rude and invasive. I’m not disputing that.
However, I think this is an important opportunity to reflect on what’s going on with our culture.
The social media influencers often want to frame it as “men vs women”.
I don’t have that view at all. If anything, I feel that the men & women of our society are largely misled and exploited… I feel bad for both men & women who are led down self-destructive paths, often with good-hearted intentions every step of the way.
To say it succinctly: Men and women both have “experts” whispering in their ear telling them they need to be careful of secret abuse/exploitation.
And the biggest consumers of this advice? Single men & women!
It makes men & women paranoid, and to assuage their fears, they might test their potential dating-partner in off-putting ways.
In time, good people will have their fears laid to rest, so long as they’re putting their trust in their own awareness/instincts and not filtering everything through an “expert” (an “expert” that will lose them as a viewer if they are actually in a good relationship btw!).
The TL;DR:
In today’s culture, both men & women are paranoid. They don’t want to be abused or exploited. This paranoia can make men and women act in off-putting ways—not because they’re assholes at their core, but because they’re afraid.
Culturally, we need to find a way forward beyond this current fearmongering era of love advice. I have compassion for every man and woman who’s had their mind twisted into a pretzel by influencers who’ve made them cynical, bitter, paranoid and numb.
Yes, we all need to be aware of harmful people. But we also need to be understanding and compassionate. We need to recognize the state of the culture and what it does to well-meaning men and women.
– Eric
Debsterism
This is a very telling question and one you were right to not answer. First of all, any chump who would ask such a question deserves to get any crazy answer you decide to give, including a blank stare and a “well you’re stupid!” Never entertain men who ask this question and dump them immediately.
But really, it’s a trap. You never know if what you say (even if 100% true) is still “too high” or “too low” in his book. Either way he will judge you so what is the point of setting yourself up? Silly women tell a number because they “want to be honest.” Goofy.
The one way I shut down the two guys who I remember asked me about an ex (way back when I was in college in the late 1980s) is me saying “why do you want to know about my exes? You want their numbers or something? You sure are asking a lot of questions about another man in my bed so it makes me wonder. Shoulda told me you on that side of the fence homey! Don’t worry about it, some of my best friends are gay!” They look stunned and shut up. Neither ever mentioned another man to me again. LOLOL
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