HS inspired – how to BUILD UP a relationship


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  • #780187

    Avalanche

    Posted named HS had some miscommunication with some posters here and became rightfully exhausted. She’s not the first one.
    The replies you often give make it seem like a guy has to do everything. In real life it’s not the case. Women seduce men, cook for them play games show their vulnerable side ask for help to make a guy feel useful. The saying goes that smart woman chooses a guy and he thinks he won her over. Sometimes guys know they’re being pursued in some way. Many of my friends are in such relationships.
    However, here I see the mindset that any small red flag means it’s done. Accusation of chasing a guy all the time. That if a guy is into you you know it and it’s true but there is something in between. That’s dating. Tough love is useful. This community could be more supportive. I don’t want to start a war so let’s maybe focus – how to build up a relationship?

    #780192

    kaye

    Did you even read her post? Because I’m not sure what you’re talking about red flags or chasing a guy or whatever because they don’t even apply to the post she wrote. She is confused by her EX’s behavior. She’s not in a relationship, he hasn’t asked her to take him back or made any indication he wants to rekindle what they had. She hasn’t even seen him again for goodness sake! And even if he was begging her back (which he’s not) there’s still the issue he’s not over his recent divorce or ready for a relationship as she stated herself.

    But I’m glad you’re inspired by her because I think she clearly is a MESS! She admits she doesn’t know how she’s feeling, won’t ask him his feelings because she doesn’t know what she wants, and doesn’t want to see him again YET. She asks what we think his behavior means and then argues and gets mad when we’re not telling her this man is obviously deeply in love with her and wants her back.

    She claims she is the one who always initiates, he takes hours to reply or call but they end up in these “deep chats”. And these deep conversations are absolutely the ONLY thing she can come up with as to him possibly having feelings for her other than as a friend.

    So when I’m on this site I’m inclined to help women BUILD UP their relationships if
    a) They’re actually IN a relationship
    b) They have at least admitted they want their ex back
    c) There is a chance the ex actually wants to rekindle

    She even states she may just want to be friends. If SHE doesn’t know what she wants and the EX isn’t pushing to meet with her to apologize and reconcile just what in the Hell is she talking about building?!?!

    #780197

    Anon

    I agree with the OP- women are their worst enemy. We are competitive with one another over so much- friendships, other men, how great a mom you are, the list goes on and on. I wish other women would just say- I hear you- and be kind. Deep down most women on this website just want an outlet to share their insecurities and they get trampled on. I would never post a real problem and if you notice how righteous some people are on this site also never post a concern but feel free to shell out tons of righteous advice. Be kind- it actually goes a long way!

    #780200

    Broken halos

    Everyone is different and what works for one person may not work for another.

    You want to build up a relationship?

    Be secure and ok with yourself first.

    Know what you want and what you’re willing to compromise on because you won’t always get what you want.

    Keep your expectations low. try to avoid living up to the pressure of some silly images in your head of how you want it to be, supposed to be, or your idea of the ‘perfect’ guy to avoid being disappointed.

    Focus on the facts. Where are you and this other person at in your lives? Are you on the same page? Are you just desperate to be loved by anyone so you will have the companionship and intimacy? are you really ready for a relationship? Is this other person ready for a relationship? Are you seeing what you want to see or are you seeing it for how it really is? Is it just lust? Can you see a future with this person? Can you fill each other’s needs? How well do you communicate? Will you put up with abuse or compromise your own needs to cater to theirs just to have this person?

    Dating is difficult. The problem i see now a days is the throw away or expendable society we live in and more options. Keep friends and lovers separate. base if it will work out or not on a selfie and short description of themselves, swipe left or right. If it’s broke, just get a new one. Get a better one. Younger one. If there’s a tiny red flag, don’t stay, run and find someone else waving red flags you can tolerate better. Trust nobody because everyone uses social media to cheat on their partners and lies their a$s off about themselves.

    #780201

    Ss

    My take is that if you are on this site everything is not rosy in your garden. I can spout the “rules” of dating … not having sex too soon, not initiating etc … but i make mistakes like everyone else on here and i can still give advice even if I’m too much of an idiot to follow it myself!

    My current relationship has gone against all advice on here. We had sex on the first date, we equally initiate convos, i shared my feelings in a tentative way which led to the DTR where HE locked me down to be exclusive. Does this mean I’m now a dating guru and on here to be mean and provide crap advice?! No!

    Im still on here because I’m nosy. I’m still on here because my relationship is very much early days and i don’t trust him yet…

    My point is we all have issues. We all try and help. If one poster is being a negative tw*t then ignore them as being spiteful but if lots of us have independently read between the lines and come up with very similar conclusions?! Listen to them. They come from experience and they come from a place of love and support

    #780203

    Lala

    I think Kaye always has spot on advice that is extremely fair and I certainly agree in this case. OP is trying to steer responders to the conclusion that she wants to hear (that he is deeply in love w her) but there simply aren’t the facts to support that. Her ego was bruised so she stomped off. Sadly I predict she will continue to interact with him and he will continue to string her along while she could be spending that time and emotional energy on someone who is available.

    #780204

    Kalyn

    I tend to agree with the other responses. People typically post here when they are experiencing a relationship problem, not when things are going great. Some people just ask for support and the ability to vent and if that’s the case, I would hope that the responses would be nurturing in nature unless it’s clear the person posting is being abused and needs a wake up call. However, some ask questions and while it’s true that there are some a*sholes here, most of the responses are from women who have been in similar situations and can offer an outside perspective. Everyone posting needs to keep in mind that the answers are merely opinions.

    I think that some of the people posting here know the answers to their questions in their guts and are just not ready to hear the truth, so they react defensively when everyone gives similar advice that forces them to confront an uncomfortable truth. People can also feel embarrassed and judged when they’re told that what they want to believe about their relationship might not be accurate. It’s human nature to avoid that which hurts us. But, getting defensive instead of considering any of the well intended advice isn’t really going to help. Seeking validation for non productive behavior really isn’t going to help either.

    When I’ve had issues in my relationships, I tend to first reach out to the girlfriends who will empathize, sympathize, validate my POV and show up with ice cream and wine. However, when I’m ready to truly the truth along with my part in the issue, I call my very best girlfriend, “J”…the one who will also bring over the Ben and Jerry’s but who ALWAYS calls me on my sh*t and who ALWAYS gives me the truth, even if it’s harsh and it hurts. She helps me grow as a person and a romantic partner for the next relationship, when I’m ready.

    There are definitely people here who could be nicer and more helpful but I also see posters who become upset when they receive exactly what they asked for so it might be helpful if people would really think about what they are seeking before they post, and ask for that specifically. I didn’t see a lot of rudeness in response to HS’s post. It just seemed most everyone picked up on the same thing in her post and she became defensive instead of asking herself the hard questions.

    As for building up relationships…I’m sure there are people in good relationships that post a question here and I hope they receive the appropriate advice to help them grow and improve those relationships. However, there are many relationships written about here that absolutely should NOT be “built up” because they’re toxic, abusive, one sided or unhealthy and I don’t think anyone who respectfully points that out is being “mean” or ugly. I also understand while some of those responding become frustrated after writing a well thought out response that echos the other responses, only to have the OP reject it outright because they don’t like it.

    #780206

    Lane

    Avalanche, a lot of us come from experience (I have almost 40 years that includes dating and a long term marriage), where we’ve seen this play out either in our own lives or those we’ve known. Those who come here asking for help are struggling and we see their struggles and try to provide them with an outside perspective, or in some cases, a hard dose of reality based on what they present to us.

    We know male patterns and this is a typical pattern that has been played out over a hundred times—so often there are loads of books and articles on the subject! All we are doing is trying to signal to the OP that men who play coy or make promises they never follow through on are not men you want to hitch your wagon too. Have we been wrong and it worked out? Yes, however its very very rare whereas most OP’s come back wishing they had listened to us v. the few, and yes, only a handful in the five plus years I’ve been responding, who came back saying it worked out.

    We truly want women to be successful in love but we also aren’t going to set women up to fail or miss the opportunity to find the right man because they are obsessed or stuck with the wrong one. This man isn’t wanting to rekindle anything or he would have rekindled it by now. He has had PLENTY of time and opportunity to do so but has not because he doesn’t want to. Men go after what they want, and any women who believes otherwise has no clue how men operate.

    #780254

    Avalanche

    Anon, be kind, you’re kind. Harsh truth about women. I noticed this trend on this forum. Some very good posts here. The problem is that I hear all the time how some of my friends’ relationship started or even in my family. They chase a guy, slept with him too soon, broke down in front of him the list goes on on on. It’s the easiest way to give advice “write him off” and at the same time disrespect your own rules yourself. Somehow some of my friends didn’t let a guy off, stuck to him and got a result they wanted. Like you said ss, you broke the rules and you have a bf. Then they tell me you poor single thing! Some of them were doormats! That’s what I hate the most! Some guys wish women gave them a green light signal. I know my case and several others on this forum and they look pretty bad. I know how frustrating it must be for you to basically listen here every single day about the almost exact scenario. I have to be honest if every single red flag led me to blocking a guy I’d run out of guys quickly because they don’t grow on trees.

    #780260

    Raven

    It’s fine to break the ‘rules’
    Unfortunately there are more casualties than success stories…

    #780263

    Hs

    Honestly i havent read all the posts because its quite tiring

    I asked a simple question..do you think that a guy is being a platonic friend, or building towards winning me back by first establishing trust and intimacy etc. He does all the things required to win someone back whilst giving me time and space. I am however not sure he is ready for a relationship, not because of anything that he’s done but because i believe people need time. I dont want to date him right now. I was clear about this throughout the entire post

    Instead of answering my question everyone but everyone accused me of lying to myself, being desperate to be in a relationship with him, chasing him etc

    Not one person actually believed that i feel the way i clearly stated i feel. Why is that?

    I stated for now i want to keep it platonic, which is why i treat him the exact same way as all my platonic friends. How is that chasing him?

    Why would i ask if i dont want him back right now? Maybe because he gave clear indication that to him its much more personal than platonic friends. Something most women here dont.seem to understand is that emotional.intimacy is how men bond with girlfriends. I dont want to lead him on. I dont want to lose his friendship. How do i handle it

    But everyone was too busy accusing me of wanting him desperately and chasing him to actually consider my question

    Thats all besides the point now. He did come around to my house last night and told me the whole he loves me and wants me back. Way too many things said to actually retype here. Plus you wont read it in any case

    I answered not now. I think he needs more time. I have things i am.working on that is my first priority now. Hopefully we can remain friends and maybe one day in a few months….

    My biggest problem here, the relationship thing i’ve stated, wasnt meant about my relationship with him (and guess what, even a friendship is a relationship), but in general.

    Women here never listen to what the op actually asks and instead of thinking it through and giving an adult answer, not a playbook rule of oh he has to initiate…. guess what, stupid rules dont build intimacy. What do i bet you had you given women sincere advice to improve communication, intimacy etc instead of these daft rules you would have had a positive impact on more relationships instead of shooting everything and everyone down and probably sinking a few potentially great relationships

    As for kaye’s solid advice, she was 100% dead wrong and actually fought with me over what i feel. And lost the bet made above..why on earth if someone clesrly states what they feel.would you argue with them about it?

    As for lane, youre not the only one around the block here. Except some of us dont give advice based solidly on our crappy past experiences

    #780267

    Hs

    Sorry, not kaye, lala

    #780274

    Newbie

    I never talk about rules. There are plenty of sites that have dating rules set up. This is a forum and i tend to advice based on the info i have. And Yes i try this in a gentle way as a lot of others do too. But sometimes when you see someone is deluding herself and you know she will stay put, its very hard not to be more harsh. Friends probably wont say it to that person. This forum has been very trashy with a bunch of trolls but im glad they are gone.
    I dont think i responded to the post you mentioned since i have my own rule not to repeat when its been said a few times already and i dont see the need to go be a part of a crowd. But thats just my rule.
    Im all for being helpful in a nice and caring way, but the post you picked is really weird. You really want us to go support with a notion its going to work out. That guy is a classic case of rebounding going too fast and then backing of when it became serious on her part. This problably within a 3 month time frame. I think its actually nice hs rethought her cold response after her health scare, but clinging on to deep conversations will only lead to heartbreak if you give it too much meaning. Pointing that out isnt rude.
    So again im really all for being nice but you also have to remember that friends are not very inclined to tell the truth. They will go along. So some unbias opinions can help

    #780275

    Hs

    Clearly newbe didnt read my comment on this post either, jumping to all kinds of conclusions about rebounds and time frames and an expected outcome which is the ecact opposite of what i already stated the outcome was. And thats why this is a waste of time.

    #780281

    Kalyn

    HS…I just went back and re-read your initial post and as someone who writes for a living (at least in part), it seemed very unclear as to what exactly your were asking.

    “I asked a simple question..do you think that a guy is being a platonic friend, or building towards winning me back by first establishing trust and intimacy etc. He does all the things required to win someone back whilst giving me time and space. I am however not sure he is ready for a relationship, not because of anything that he’s done but because i believe people need time. I dont want to date him right now. I was clear about this throughout the entire post”.

    I didn’t see that question asked in your post. You DID ask what did we make of his behavior, which is a little ambiguous considering that you were actually seeking a very specific answer. Also, it isn’t clear from your initial post that you weren’t currently interested in dating the man. For what it’s worth, I believe you when you say that you’re not and I’ll also say that’s smart. Rebuild the connection over time and see whether it feels more friendly or romantic, and observe to determine if he is capable of showing up as a good friend or partner.

    As for what his behavior might mean, I always opt for the simplest possible explanation in such situations, while trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. I would assume he misses the connection and wants to try to be friends. At worst, he is trying to keep you around as an option while decides what HE wants. At best, the two of you build a relationship that is stronger, better and more lasting that the one you had before. Reality is probably somewhere in the middle but it’s nearly impossible for any of us to say exactly what his behavior means at this point and it’s difficult to try and “build up” a relationship when we have no idea what type of relationship it will be. But keep doing what you’re doing and it should become clear over time what his intentions are. The good news is, at that point, YOU get to decide what to do with it.

    #780283

    Hs

    Kalyn, thanks. I purposefully didnt express what i hope the outcome to be in my first post, because that may steer peoples reactions. Leading. I simply wanted to know what they think his behaviour means. Only after i started getting accused of chasing after him blah blah blah did i become clear on my point of view and reasons for asking. But even then, no one cares what i state i feel.or the facts i state. It just remained accusations

    After last night however his intentions is 100% clear. Precisely what i thought it to be based on his actions. I still dont think now is the right time for us. Therefore i said maybe one day. And no, i’m not sure that was the right decision either. But in time we’ll see

    #780284

    Newbie

    No i didnt read you post. It must have crossed and i assirmd you left the building already.
    But ok, Lets check then: how long was your relationship until he ghosted?
    Ah well, Lets not check. Who cares when all you do is argue. I think In your threat every poster answered your question which was what to think of his behaviour and bothered to tell you why and you call that tiring?

    #780287

    Kalyn

    A note on “rules”. I’ve been visiting this site on and off for several years and I do believe that there are some general, universal truths when it comes to dating but that they should be viewed as a guide and suggestions. Relationships are individual, dynamic, intangible life situations with infinite facets. When we adhere to strictly to rules when it comes to our relationships, we sometimes sacrifice authenticity, flexibility joyful experience. Personally, I believe much of the success of a romantic relationship can be determined by how mentally and emotionally healthy the participants are, how we handle conflict, how we communicate, our degree of security/insecurity with our authentic selves and how open we are to letting love in, no matter how we’ve been hurt in the past.

    A tall order, for sure. I’ve dated many men where I followed the “rules” perfectly and the man either lost interest after a few months or it fell apart due to areas of incompatibility. I wasn’t truly secure with myself, I wasn’t as emotionally healthy as I should have been and I let hurts from the past create walls of which I wasn’t even aware. I was a damn mess, lol. In those cases, no rule following made a bit of difference.

    With the man I’m currently dating, I broke every rule in the book. Formed what felt like a deep connection over the phone for a month before meeting, had sex with him on the first date, kept seeing him when he said he was less than a year out of a five year relationship and wasn’t ready to be exclusive and I knew he was seeing others, initiated communication and dates, paid for half the dates, said I Love You first…you name it, I broke it. The difference this time was me. I had taken the time to work on and learn to love, myself. I wanted to be with him but was absolutely willing to walk away if I became unhappy with the situation. Things developed slowly over time and I wasn’t constantly “future thinking”…I just enjoyed the moments. When we weren’t together, I truly enjoyed my friends, my hobbies and even other dates so I wasn’t obsessively thinking about him or what he might be doing, as I’ve done with past relationships. I showed appreciation for the what he WAS giving me and didn’t seek validation from him. At the point where I knew that the lack of exclusivity was making me unhappy (about 6 months in), I asked him if he was “ready” and when he said he wasn’t sure, I told him I was grateful for the time we’d had, wished him well, walked away and meant it instead of issuing ultimatums or trying to reason with him. A week later he showed up, told me he realized he loved me the minute I walked out the door but had given it a week to make sure it wasn’t reactionary, and he wanted to be with me and only me. At month 8 I met his son and family and as we close in on a year, we have settled into the loveliest of relationships where there’s trust, communication, appreciation, compromise and support.

    If I had posted anything about this relationship earlier on, I’m sure I would have been told that he had low interest, that he stringing me along, that it would never develop into anything more and that I was wasting my time waiting around and hoping for something that was never going to happen. I’ve seen it written here time and again, “If a man doesn’t make you his girlfriend by month three, it’s never going to happen. If he hasn’t said I Love You by month six, he never will and no man who sees a future with you will chance losing you by not becoming exclusive within the first eight weeks or so.” In some cases, this all may be true but I think what’s more important is how we, as women, show up and how much we love and respect ourselves, independent of a man.

    So maybe it’s not about “building up a relationship” as it is about building up the people posting, so that the relationships they have become a bonus to an already secure, strong and joyful existence? Not telling them the relationship is doomed because it’s not adhering to a certain set of rules or timeline. Maybe we should be helping them work on their own, personal dysfunction so that it doesn’t matter if they sleep with someone “too soon” or initiate contact “too much”…they know they’ll be just fine regardless and instantly become more attractive because of this confidence. Or helping them refine their standards and their ability to figure out what THEY want, so that they can be the one to break it off with men who aren’t a good fit, early on.

    I see so many women here trying desperately to hang on to relationships which don’t serve them. I think we need to be taught to first ask ourselves, “Is this what *I* want? Why or why not?” as opposed to “Is there any way to save this or Will it work out?” And there is enough experience here to help the people posting to learn to do just that.

    Sorry for the rambling. I’m working from home on a cold, rainy day and I’m over-pondering.

    #780316

    Avalanche

    Hs it seems people still didn’t read how your story turned out and still give you advice. You were right from the start and I stood by you, your gut since the beginning.
    Kalyn, thank you for your post. It’s simply perfect. How many relationships are ruined by guys listening to PUA and women to the rules. Good luck with your relationship! Emotional connection is the key that’s why I believe in power of vulnerability just haven’t figured it out yet. Or I ever will.

    #780325

    Hs

    Kaylen, your last post was perfect, and is a perfect example of exactly what i mean. That is also exactly where i am. Beginning of the year i set myself some goals. One of them being a level 2 so right now that working on my career is my highest priority. Then i have my home, children, friends, hobbies, etc. Betwern everything i’m just not sure i can give him the time he deserves now. And i still think he needs more time to find all of that what you mentioned in himself too. So thats why i said not now. Maybe i will kick my own ass about it in the future. But maybe i wont

    Avalanche, yes newbie again exactly proved my point. Not even reading the outcome and still jumping to conclusions about what it was and the outcome.its mindboggelling really

    And yes, emotional connection is the difference between a fling and a long term relationship. And the only way to build that is to be vulnerable. Make mistakes. Show your insecurities etc. And the one thing i can tell you, being vulnerable takes more guts than anything else. But it builds intimacy.

    #780327

    kaye

    “Instead of answering my question everyone but everyone accused me of lying to myself, being desperate to be in a relationship with him, chasing him etc”

    You accuse us of not listening or paying attention to the facts but no where in my responses to you did I say you were chasing him, you were desperate or lying to yourself. I also don’t see where I was fighting with you over how you feel. I would appreciate if you could point that out to me.

    But what I did say is I saw nothing of substance and didn’t see this going anywhere if you have spent months talking but not seeing each other. And I could see you getting heartbroken if you continued to create an emotional connection with him when he could be having these same conversations with other women. So stop putting words in my mouth I didn’t even say. And stop twisting the facts and making up lies to try to make your point.

    I don’t think anything changed until last night when he made it clear he wanted you back. That is what should happen! A man shouldn’t leave you guessing on his intentions with you. If you are having to come here on a forum to ask if he’s being a platonic friend or trying to win you back then you obviously weren’t clear on what he wanted because he wasn’t telling you. When a man wants you back he makes it clear. And what better way to prove my point than the fact he showed up and said those very words to you last night! Maybe if you had agreed to see him earlier you wouldn’t have to be guessing as to his intentions or come on a forum and ask us to look into a crystal ball and figure out what he wanted. I give the best advice I can based on the information provided and my experiences. That’s all I can do.

    #780332

    Hs

    Kaye, i mentuoned your name by accident, therefore in my very next comment i said sorry, not kaye, lala

    I still dont see why a man storming into a womans house and making a grand gesture or a bunch of empty words and promises are interpreted by women as more valid than a man who takes 3 weeks to work for it, earn your respect back, give you time and space to absorb it, etc. To me the first means nothing. I can say anything i want that i dont mean to get what i want. The 2nd however shows effort and commitment

    Hence my fear that he wanted more than platonic. Which turned out to be true

    #780337

    Newbie

    Both you ladies are putting words in my mouth too. First of all, i said i didnt read it since it crossed with my post. After that i still didnt read it. Why would i care when someone doesnt want to get an opinion? I dont do that. If you read my last entry real closely you can see i wasnt giving advice. I said all posted wants to do is argue (proven by now). Secondly i said that everyone answered your question from their perspective. If you read that back, you can see thats 100% true too.
    Now i did read the update out of curiousity and guess what: i cant respond to it as it would be against forum regulations. But i can say, all the best to you

    #780339

    Hs

    Thanks for once again proving my point newbie

    #780342

    Newbie

    No you really dont get it. Im not responding to your post, im responding to Avalanche post who asked to be more positive etc. I was responding to that and used your post as an example. I didnt even advice on your own threat since you made it clear you didnt appreciate it. I respected that and felt enough was said already. But now you come back to bite my throat of for not reading your update? Well. Lady this is not your threat about your question.

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