Response to Eric Carles "Are Men Evil" newsletter..

Please excuse my typo.. Eric Charles (not Carles).

I agree with you Gemini. I just think too many women are too available and give themselves up too easily, too soon, and then they’re surprised that it doesn’t work. They’re surprised that the man disappeared.

Good discussion Kate. Its critical that women understand the mind of a man before they engage with them. Most men have specific “types and qualities” their attracted to, but will have sex with any willing female participant. Just because they take you out on one or two dates doesn’t mean they envision a future with you, which is what a man needs to do before he can profess his love. Those who talk about a future with you TOO EARLY (first or second date) are most likely desperate so I would be very careful with these guys and keep sex of the table longer than one who professes it in the 3 months.

Men don’t bond through sex like we do, whereas ladies need to be acutely aware that if they sleep with a man without without truly knowing if he’s interested in more than the physical (sex) then their hormones are going to wreak havoc on their emotional state, especially if they’re highly attracted to them which is a double whammy. This is one of the TOP three problems women post on here, where they went on a couple dates, had sex and he FADED. Women really need to become better male detectives or they will continually find themselves repeating the same patterns of having sex too early then wonder why their still single.

I have always been an advocate that a man MUST be far more interested in you than you are him. This dynamic resulted in 4 proposals with 3 different men between the ages of 18-23 because my father sat me down at the age of 17 and told all about “the chase” why men pursuit, and what to look out for. His dating playbook helped me to avoid a lot of the dating pitfalls young (and older) ladies fall into. Knowledge is power! :-)

I haven’t read this newsletter. What exactly did Eric say about withholding sex?

I feel curious about how having one gender way more interested in the other creates a healthy sustainable and intimate relationship that passes the test of time. Perhaps people could share their thoughts.

I fully agree that men should lead, but as I age, I do am less and less enamoured with a relationship that has game playing involved. Again, not leading, but real relationships are based on intimacy, growth and connection – not a chase. And the men I see in healthy relationships would never stand for a long term chase. They would lose interest and move on and the women they are with would never be so inauthentic.

I really like Evan Mark Katz on the topic – be generous and responsive – but mirror the man, never give more – but always be warm, playful and appreciative.

Vicky, if you paid attention to what I said, I emphasized that withholding sex depends on the REASON. Sure, it anyone’s right to decide they don’t want to have sex anymore, but if your reasoning behind it is that you are hoping withholding sex after already engaging in a steady sexual relationship will push him to want to be in a relationship with you, then that IS MANIPULATION.

Hi katie,

I agree with you on the points you mentioned:

“He thought it would be wrong for a woman to hold out for a relationship.”

Its not wrong, whereas a lady shouldn’t feel she must have sex with a man she barely knows. What Eric doesn’t understand is how much sex screws with our hormones/emotions that bonds us to a man. Its best for a lady to withhold it to make sure he’s a man of good character and his intentions are pure, meaning he sees a future with the lady not just a romp in the hay.

>He mentioned many married people he knew had sex on the first date. Some of his best long term relationships started that way.”

And I know of many who have been married for 30 to 65 + years where they didn’t have sex until they were married after a long courtship (2-3 years). There’s more to relationships than SEX. I agree that its important but trust me, when times get tough or life throws you curve balls you will need to rely on communication, compassion, negotiation, empathy, wits, strength and whole lot of perseverance.

Maybe it comes down to different definitions of the word bitch?

My impression is that Eric was advocating secure self-confidence as opposed to acting out in anger or fear or manipulation or cruelty (just like the author of the why men love bitches book differentiates between these two things).

I don’t think he was advocating sex on the first date, but rather just to have sex when it feels right for you and recognize that a relationship (and the reason people fall in love and commit) has a lot more to do with personality, compatibility, and chemistry.

I think he was just advocating self-awareness and good boundaries (just like all the posters here were describing). One thing I really like about his articles is that he focuses on confidence and inner growth rather than telling women when they can or can’t have sex. I think part of the issue was that he was reacting to the way that relationship wisdom gets translated into sound bytes (“you have to be a bitch, and a guy will never respect you if you sleep with him right away”) and translate that into something more nuanced…..”be secure and confident in yourself, know your boundaries, and have sex when it’s right for you rather than as an attempt to control the other person.”) maybe some of it got lost in translation but I do think he’s basically on the same page….

Hi Lane,

I actually don’t like the use of the word bitch at all, I was just trying to articulate what the “why men love bitches” book use the word to mean (they use it to mean self-sufficient and secure) and what Kate was saying about men loving “bitches” in the sense of a confident woman with boundaries who won’t wait around for a man. My point was just that I think when Eric said “men AREN’T attracted to bitches” he meant that they aren’t attracted to cruelty, self-absorption, and meanness, and that confident, calm, secure behavior is more effective and more attractive than anything. I think the “why men love bitches” book used the word as a provocative title but paradoxically the behavior they advocate is classy, composed, calm and cool ….the total opposite of “bitchiness” in my opinion. But it’s definitely a word that gets thrown around a lot.

And yes totally…..it’s almost impossible to know someone else’s motivations from the start, so best to just do what’s right for and respectful of you. I do think depending on brain chemistry and personality women have very different attitudes and approaches to sex …..for most women good boundaries with sex mean being aware of the effect it can have and acting accordingly…….depending on if you’re more prone to a dopamine rush (which guys experience more readily) or an oxytocin overdose (which women often experience)….I think (I hope!!!) he wasn’t advocating sex before you’re ready but just waiting until you ARE ready – like you’ve said, vetted the situation and the guy and yourself to make sure you’re comfortable with it – rather than sticking to a magic number of dates, since that timeline is probably different for every person in terms of when they would feel comfortable and able to make good decisions.

I really liked what you said, I was just trying to give my interpretation of what Eric wrote because IMO it was actually pretty consistent with the things people were saying here and a positive message about confidence and boundaries.

Thanks for the clarification! I didn’t realize men were attempting to repackage the word bitch and turn into something completely else again. I can’t keep up with all these new fangled dating techniques—its used to be so much simpler!!! :oP

I too have been reading Eric’s emails and am honestly, I am definitely NOT ready to work this hard to have a relationship. Too many childish games going on with grown men if you ask me. It should NOT have to be such an ongoing delicately played game of tug-o-war to find a boyfriend. As a mother of 3 grown boys (now men and we are all very close) , I don’t see them behaving like this, and playing games with women…I think I would just strangle them if I found out any different.

I am really beginning to savor my “singleness” and everytime I feel just a little bit lonely, all I have to do is have a come-to-Jesus meeting with myself to remind me how great my life is now without a man. I am petrified of hooking up with someone who might screw it all up for me.

My married friends do tell me the truth and universally the married ones say they married women who were sweet and smart. That was why they chose them. I listen to married people about relationships, not single ones. Not one of the married women I know has said I used a chase a to snare him. They say they were responsive, receptive and appreciative.

Do not confuse what single and confirmed bachelors tell you. Men who are not looking for commitment want a challenge, and when it is over, they end things. Men who do want a commitment want to lead, but they do not want an unreciprocated Interaction. Men marry women who make them feel good about their lives and themselves. That is why you should let them lead, and when they do, be appreciative, responsive and receptive. That allows men know you are interested, but still be warm and kind. If they are not leading, then they don’t get the warmth and kindness.

Eric never says anywhere you should have him like you more or make him chase you. He says to be yourself and let him lead with confidence. There is a very big difference.

I really wish we would stop with the crap dating advise that giving less love gets you more love. Giving with confidence to the world and letting men lead gets you love. The rules women ended up divorced so what did they really get? Healthy men will tire of women who do not call them back, insist on being given to without reciprocation and no vulnerability. Again, this does not mean lead…. It means receptive, responsive and appreciative.